Your Input Wanted - Rules/Advertising - Self Promotion

I dont fully understand roberts plan, but if he does that is all that matters.

You want shops to post their work and parts, their sketches, renderings, ideas, it draws people into the site, plain and simple. Thats what a lot of people visit the site for to begin with, to see whats being built all around the country, it produces website traffic

Even in the last months of SSM when it was the old format, i would check my thread i have on here and it would average 1000-3000 views each day, and on days i would post picture updates, it would have double. There is no doubt that it generates traffic in my mind, and there is no doubt in my mind that some of the people who saw those picture updates turned into customers of ours, its logical to think that.

I personally have no problem paying to be able to post my work, but your going to have a hard time regulating everyone who is posting work, determining if they are probable of making money by posting it or not, and deciding who to charge, and who not to charge.

Either way, im game for it.

I think Nate understands what I'm saying. I need to work on a better explanation. I can definitely see where it would be confusing There is no paying to post your work except for reseller type of posts like.

"Check out my site I have such and such for 19.95!"

I know for services and custom parts you are going to get people that post asking how much after you show your work. In my plan I only ask for those requests that you send a private message in response unless you have your own forum section.

Here's my thoughts...as I own two companies, a "shop" and a "manufactures".
I post a lot of the "builds" I do on here. Mostly just to throw them out there and hear what people have to say, get feedback, and help people out with questions related to the build or their personal project. I think that type of stuff should be free. I also think there should be a paid advertiser that pays a yearly fee to put their banner on the "Builds" page. I also think that whoever the advertiser is should NOT be shop. Some shops would be hesitant to post in a forum sponsored by a different shop. Maybe a reseller would be more appropriate for that advertising spot. Think of companies like AVS or Lowrider Depot... they would want to sponsor a "builds" section in hopes that the people posting their builds in that section would want to show off the parts they purchased from the forum advertiser.
My other company, who paid to be an advertiser when the site was in it's old format and was just erased with the new format and I could never get a response on what was going to happen with my advertisement that I paid for, is a "manufacturing" company. I think that if I want to post up a thread only related to the parts we produce, then I should be required to pay for that. Since I can actually install my parts, I can get the free exposure by posting a "build" of the products installed. I think it would be a good idea, and I think it was done before, to have a forum I sponsor that is only related to my manufacturing company. A place to showcase my product, list information and pricing, answer product related questions, and how to purchase my product.
I think anyone who chooses to advertise on a forum, like I was talking about with a company like AVS or Lowrider Depot advertising on the "builds" forum, should also get their own forum section as part of their advertising cost.
People like Taylor, who do full builds and offer their own parts, should be separated into different categories. I think if he wants to post up pics of the "builds" he is doing he can have one post for that (or one post for each project). If he wants to post pics of just the parts he manufactures, I would require him to pay to be an advertiser and then he would get his own forum section. That way he could highlight just the parts he sells, offer pricing, sales, new product, product development, ect. Even though he has never posted pricing or anything on what's probably the largest thread in SSM history, I'm sure he (just like I have) made plenty of sales based on his posting on SSM.
The problem I think Robert is going to have is what's going on with SSM now. I'm sure traffic has decreased, if not in the last year, definitely since the remodel. You are going to have to do some work to contact possible advertisers, as well as offer some incentives to get advertisers on board. Let them know what you plan to do to the site to revive it and get more visitors.

Honestly, I don't see it that way Jeremy. In my opinion, if your going to charge one person to post pictures of parts they build, you need to charge every person who posts pictures of parts they build.

If a shop starts a build thread on a truck their building at the moment, and they use all their parts they produce on this truck, Such as they make their own arms, spindles, 4-link, brackets, all of that kind of stuff that they themselves produce, then They need charged to advertise, as I personally do not see that to be any different than a shop posting up pictures of parts they produce, without building a vehicle at the time. Even if they do not post pricing, or link to pricing, or anything else, both said groups should be charged to advertise, because they are pretty much doing the same thing in my opinion.

Im interested to see how this pans out in the long run, either way, I will gladly give it a shot. But, from my experience, you either need to charge everybody, or nobody. Im a member of too many forums that loose sponsors regularly because the guy that does pay to advertise gets pissed off that the website does not charge the other guy the same way they do him, becuase they post build pictures of trucks they build, with their own produced parts, that people viewing the threads obviously know they sell. Ive seen it happen on many many forums, one that is a prime example is Dodgetalk.com. That place is a ghost town now.

It's definitely a fine line to be moderated.
I think it's different for different companies. Lets say you build a set of arms for a truck and post up pics of the entire build. Some one asks about the arms in the "build" thread... your response would be "go check out my MMW forum for pricing and information", or you attach a link to your forum. Let's say Joe Blow posts up a build thread where he built his own arms. If someone were to ask about the arms he built and he tries to offer them for sale, that would need to be moderated. It could even lead to a future advertiser for the site. The moderator could simply remove the comment, and send the perpetrator (lol) a PM saying that offering products for sale is not permitted to non-advertisers and explain to them the options available to become an advertiser. I don't even like the "PM me for pricing" thing because it's still using the site to make money, without giving back to the site.

The way I see it is it separates the guys with a 110v welder and cutoff wheel trying to appear like a "shop" from the guys that are legit. I have no problem paying for my own forum space to post both builds ive got going on and parts im developing or selling. Your going to have people who try to make money in a thread and that's what moderators are for. Im a part of several other sites that have the same advertising rules and they work it out no problem. Id like to see shops buy their own forum space even if posting builds is free, it would make locating their work easier and if your paying for forum space youll be back daily to update it thus drawing in traffic. That's why im doing it at least.

I foresee problems if you are leaving a site this size (assuming active again) to be moderated basically on "who is profiting or trying to profit" vs "who paid for the right to profit". There is going to be a fine line there and I think it will end up blurry, grey, and a mess.

I think it has to be very cut and try, not open to interpretation. The site should be set up and ran in such a way moderation should be at a minimum. Don't make it harder than it has to be. Bottom line here I see is if you expect people to pay for ads (companies), then this place needs traffic, if everything is super restrictive on posting or costs your posters are going to use facebook instead.

This is how this site got where it is at now. Lets figure out a better way is my take.

Just like Brandt is saying, i do not see the ability to run the site in a "who is profiting or trying to profit" vs "who paid for the right to profit" setup, there is no clean cut way to define between the two.

Me personally, if you own a business, and you are posting build pictures of a job your doing, products your producing, or services you have done in the past, you need to pay to advertise.

Regardless of how small or how big you are, if you are running a business of any kind, and you intend to talk about your business, or post pictures of your business, you are guilty of advertising.


Taylor

Taylor has summed it up basically how I see it. But remember if everyone has to pay to post stuff like Taylor and others are, then there will be less traffic. This site needs a balance of some sort to bring it to glory.

Manufacturers do advertise their product for sale, after the R&D phase.

Resellers are people who are buying a product marking it up and selling it.

Resellers and manufacturers who sell parts should be treated similarly. Both are selling a product. And would be considered a retailer. Some manufacturers do not sell to the general public, only to dealers and, distributors. That is one thing to keep in mind but, they are also in business for profit, no matter what channels they have to go through to get the product in the customers hands.

I agree people should be able to post build threads to show off work because it drives traffic but, people that are R&Ding a product on that build to later sell that product, should be referred to the manufacturers area. Shops that are manufacturing one off parts that will never be duplicated is another story and should remain in the shop category. But at the same time, a legit shop is still a business with overhead and trying to make a profit. Maybe the vehicle owner should just be posting the build updates if a shop does not want to pay to advertise?

Some people would fall into all three categories, some only one. I think if any install shop that is reselling or manufacturing parts (for retail) they fall into two categories and should have to pay to advertise.

And if somebody tries selling parts in somebody else thread question or build thread saying "I sell that part for $xx.xx" they should have to be a paying advertiser. And people that are not, should be moderated. Before this was only supposed to be the Gold members or whatever (honestly it wasn't really fair to people that were paying for actual advertising sponsoring a forum or having a banner ad).

The biggest problem in my opinion, was everybody, there mom and, 3rd cousin who were trying to sling parts for beer money, drop shipping everything not running legit businesses or, using their friends business accounts and never paying for any kind of advertising, or paying to at least be a Gold member. They were getting away with it because of lack of moderation and that made the site a mess and, has also destroyed part of the market in my opinion. But that's just my 2 cents, since I used to pay to advertise on here and sponsor a couple forum sections.