upper ball joint? flip=more/less camber

I HAVE LOOKED BUT I AM TIRED AND NEED TO GO TO BED/.......

sorry guys to bother over something like this but tomorrow i have a shit load of stuff to do and this is very important.... i need more camber..when laid out......just a little i think....

i need to know if flipping the upper ball joint gives me more camber or not.... oh i have bags, and lower bj flip also....i am trying to lay rocker after i trim lca's to clear for bag travel and figure this problem out......thanks

ok ......anyone......im looking ....just no answer yet...

Less camber with a flipped upper ball joint. Try working it out on a piece of paper (I had to a few years ago). As looking at the front suspension (drivers side) from the front - the inner pivot point for the UCA basically is a fixed point. The outer pivot point for the UCA is the ball joint. Now at a given ride height (say frame 1/2" off the ground) you want to get more negative camber - and you know that as the UCA pivots up and down around the inner pivot it produces an arc. The further UP the end of the UCA goes, the further IN (or negative camber) it gets.

Now, assuming you cannot change the location of the inner pivot and you cannot change the spindle or upper ball joint location the only thing you can change is the angle of the UCA. If you flip the upper ball joint you are basically moving the tip of the UCA down.

Another problem you might run into is if you do not flip the upper ball joint, and the UCA pivots up to high the upper ball joint may bind. This is why many people on here pie cut the upper control arm so that the ball joint does not bind just before the frame lays out.

Hope all this helps.

When you pie cut the upper control arms, you will get more camber.

immortal1 thanks i just got the pen and pad out and drew it up......so simple i guess i was over thinking it....thanks for the info...

elbine69---thanks aswell i was lookin into that just b4 i read this ...im gonna unflip my ball joint and pie cut for camber ....i need camber to clear my front fenders since i body dropped roughly 2 5/8....

well to the truck i go ....thanks again for all the help....ill post pics of the stance when i lay it down....

Not a problem - happy to help.

i am running pathfinder wheels now and i have both upper and lower bj flips.....i am about 3/8 inch from layin pinch in the front ......how do i pie cut to help me lay out....i cant find a clear answer or maybe i just dont understand what i am reading and i am over thinking it.....i have to go over my front suspension within the next week or so and clean all up...i might have to remount my bags ..i bought mine bagged but they dont seem to be right for laying to my knowledge...\\

any help would be great thanks

Well as far as pie cutting the upper goes I do not have any pics but can give you a pretty good explanation, but first a few questions....

1. Does the lower control arm have enough clearance between the arm and the frame to pivot up higher?
2. Will the air bag compress further assuming the answer to question 1 is yes?

If you answered yes to 1. and 2. then you may have to pie cut the upper to get the front end lower. The reason to pie cut the upper control arm is because the upper ball joint binds before the frame hits the ground.

Now where you pie cut the arm depends a little on how much camber you want or need. If you cut a pie shape out of the bottom of the arm then you will get a little MORE camber. If you cut the upper side of the upper control arm then you have to add some metal to fill the gap and you will get a little less camber.

With either choice you end up cutting the upper control arm from front to back just inside of the upper ball joint but NOT all the way thru. Then lower the truck / push the tire up until the upper control arm bends a little. Kinda like putting a temporary hinge in the upper control arm so that the upper ball joint does not bind. Once you get the correct amount of "bend" in the upper control arm then take it back apart and weld it back together at the new angle.

Hope this helps. I know there are pics of this on the site, just dont remember where (old age, LOL)

ok i see what you are saying.....and i guess maybe i was over thinking again....
1.yes
2. just a little but i need to move them ...when they were put on they never moved anything or removed anything besides the bump stops....

i will be clearing stuff out the way....and starting it this week so i guess i should start there so i can clearly answer your ?????'s

that is most likely my problem ....wouldnt you think???? oh i am running pathies and i dont know what tire yet.....

i dont need camber i want more ball joint angle/less bind either way...
so i would cut according to that???

oh and will un flipping my upper bjs hurt or help me lay??????? what if i modify my lca's or fab up a drop lca's out of my stock ones??