Shaving stock sheetmetal and warpage....

The guy who did some shaving on my truck had a air hose zip tied to his welding trigger, and blew air on every tack. It still warped, and i was there i watched him do it. But after i thought about it, it seems like the worst thing to do, first you heat it up and then extremely cool it causing warping. Am i right? Would it be better to just let it cool down naturally?

Edited: 6/17/2009 9:57:08 AM by Ice

hey , i think KEEF meant Stretch , not Shrink... correct me if im wrong KEEF... your gonna get warpage no matter what....   anytime you get some extreme heat (weld) on sheetmetal , the metal tend to shrink... around edges or structures will tend to leave less warpage...    but you got to think the heat (if set properly ) from the weld WILL shrink the metal , its like pinching a peice of paper from the middle..  you will see the riple effects...    this is usually whats causing you to see the metal dipping end and miss-shaping....    what needs to be done.. is tack few spots..  grind the weld down.. and take a GOOD body hammer and GOOD dolly (Martin or similar) and hammer-on dolly....    when you do that few times...  it causes the metal to stretch... and if done right will relax the metal back to straight......theres alot to it...   but i just wanted to point out.. the welding causes the metal to shrink...  when you hammer on dolly at the welds (haz area too) this causes the metal to stretch back out.... heres some examples of work done.. so you dont think im just bull shitting ya.. hahahhttp://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=85998124&albumId=2494765  or just check out few pics i got downloaded on Myspace.com/thehouseofhack 

ive got a completely rookie question... i have no idea how to weld or anything... so im sure this is a dumb one BUT... if you are shaving something in a small area like a door handle how many welds should you pop before you let the whole area cool down? same goes for a rollpan. should you just pop the corners and come back in 10 minutes? my buddy shaved the handle on his truck and i think he was trying to move too fast and his whole door is pretty warped now. and since i have no clue how to weld i just thought i would ask yall if i was right or if im completly retarded. ive also heard you cant weld sheetmetal without an argon(spellcheck) setup. is this true?

---------------------------------------------Originally posted by bcrunkive got a completely rookie question... i have no idea how to weld or anything... so im sure this is a dumb one BUT... if you are shaving something in a small area like a door handle how many welds should you pop before you let the whole area cool down? same goes for a rollpan. should you just pop the corners and come back in 10 minutes? my buddy shaved the handle on his truck and i think he was trying to move too fast and his whole door is pretty warped now. and since i have no clue how to weld i just thought i would ask yall if i was right or if im completly retarded. ive also heard you cant weld sheetmetal without an argon(spellcheck) setup. is this true? ---------------------------------------------i don't claim to be a pro, all i know if from trial and error. whenever you do sheetmetal you want to mig it over flux. most welders have the settings on them for the gauge of metal that you are welding. it will tell you what to set the wire speed and temp to for the gauge you are using. the smaller the area the fewer tacks that you are going to lay down between the time it cools. so if you are going to do a door handle, what i do is tack the top left corner, then the bottom right corner, then the bottom left corner, and then the top right corner, let it cool to the touch and then come back and do four more. i do that until it is all complete. make sure that all you are doing is tacking it on, no beads. beads will get the sheetmetal to hot and warp it. but like i said, i am no pro and haven't been doing it for hundreds of years like some like to claim, that is just what i do and it works for me. hope this helps bro.

No i meant shrink(altho sometimes it does shrink and have to be stretched like Ice pointed out) when it gets hot and warps the metal is stretching  depending on the shape. I push or stud weld the spot back out and hold it while heating it then cooling with wet rag which shrinks it back to shape. Big i think ur welding setting may be hurting ya man ive tried to weld with mine too low and had to hold trigger longer which caused more heat in the past. Trying turning it up slightly(not sure what welder ur using) and just hitting it a split second. Im doing a set of Honda doors right now shaving whole bodyline and have zero warpage so far which is hard for me even to beieve but i do have like 10 hours in the 2 doors so far too. I also use .030 wire i tried .023 and didnt like it at all

---------------------------------------------Originally posted by Maztang---------------------------------------------Originally posted by bcrunkive got a completely rookie question... i have no idea how to weld or anything... so im sure this is a dumb one BUT... if you are shaving something in a small area like a door handle how many welds should you pop before you let the whole area cool down? same goes for a rollpan. should you just pop the corners and come back in 10 minutes? my buddy shaved the handle on his truck and i think he was trying to move too fast and his whole door is pretty warped now. and since i have no clue how to weld i just thought i would ask yall if i was right or if im completly retarded. ive also heard you cant weld sheetmetal without an argon(spellcheck) setup. is this true? ---------------------------------------------i don't claim to be a pro, all i know if from trial and error. whenever you do sheetmetal you want to mig it over flux. most welders have the settings on them for the gauge of metal that you are welding. it will tell you what to set the wire speed and temp to for the gauge you are using. the smaller the area the fewer tacks that you are going to lay down between the time it cools. so if you are going to do a door handle, what i do is tack the top left corner, then the bottom right corner, then the bottom left corner, and then the top right corner, let it cool to the touch and then come back and do four more. i do that until it is all complete. make sure that all you are doing is tacking it on, no beads. beads will get the sheetmetal to hot and warp it. but like i said, i am no pro and haven't been doing it for hundreds of years like some like to claim, that is just what i do and it works for me. hope this helps bro.---------------------------------------------  yeah man, actually that was pretty much the answer i was looking for. im sure there are a million ways to weld depending on who is doing it but this dude was doing like 8-12 welds before he stopped then just held a cold rag on it and started again. it looks BAD

---------------------------------------------Originally posted by KEEFNo i meant shrink(altho sometimes it does shrink and have to be stretched like Ice pointed out) when it gets hot and warps the metal is stretching  depending on the shape. I push or stud weld the spot back out and hold it while heating it then cooling with wet rag which shrinks it back to shape. Big i think ur welding setting may be hurting ya man ive tried to weld with mine too low and had to hold trigger longer which caused more heat in the past. Trying turning it up slightly(not sure what welder ur using) and just hitting it a split second. Im doing a set of Honda doors right now shaving whole bodyline and have zero warpage so far which is hard for me even to beieve but i do have like 10 hours in the 2 doors so far too. I also use .030 wire i tried .023 and didnt like it at all

---------------------------------------------Boy, do I ever enjoy reading post like this. Now quit wasting time typing and get back to work. HA HA HA HA HA HA. No really, get back to work. Just kidding, no I'm not, yes I am.   Guess you'll never know if I 'm serious or not. Now get back to work.

Hey Keef...it actually is .30 wire...don't know why I said .23...I'm using a Miller 210...on 1 and i'm doin it just like u said...barley hittin the trigger and it puddles up just right...I think the sheetmetal is just stupid thin...the 18ga i used as filler pieces seemed like 1/4 compared to the metal I cut off...I just wanted to make sure that some warpage is gonna happen no matter what...Thanks for the pointers Keef. See you at STC...

on thin stuff like that i usually cut a piece out of an old hood or door to try and keep closer to the size of the panel im working with. i find using too thick of a filler you have to use too much heat to get enough penetration on the filler that you end up really overheating the body panel.

---------------------------------------------Originally posted by KEEFNo i meant shrink(altho sometimes it does shrink and have to be stretched like Ice pointed out) when it gets hot and warps the metal is stretching  depending on the shape. I push or stud weld the spot back out and hold it while heating it then cooling with wet rag which shrinks it back to shape. Big i think ur welding setting may be hurting ya man ive tried to weld with mine too low and had to hold trigger longer which caused more heat in the past. Trying turning it up slightly(not sure what welder ur using) and just hitting it a split second. Im doing a set of Honda doors right now shaving whole bodyline and have zero warpage so far which is hard for me even to beieve but i do have like 10 hours in the 2 doors so far too. I also use .030 wire i tried .023 and didnt like it at all

--------------------------------------------- dude....  im not try'n to start shit....   if it works for you , then thats great...    i know if you ask 10 people how to shave something, you'll get 15 dif answers.... again , im not try'n to start any shit...  but i feel i need to explain myself little better.....correct...   Heat does stretch the metal when its hot...   but as it cools , the metal starts shrinking...   hince why it shrinks after you heat the metal and cool it with water... just the water is making a faster shrink...heres an Article by John Kelly...http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevylist/tech/hammerwelding.htm in this article he mentions ..    Check the back-side of your weld to make sure you’re getting good penetration. It should look like a weld, not two edges glued together. If you didn’t get good penetration, you can fusion-weld over the bad spots from the back. This exercise will help you make good welds later, when you can’t see the back-side of your work. Remember, heat shrinks, so stretch your tacks with a hammer & dolly; the same applies when finish-welding. After 1/2” to 3/4” (as you get more experienced, you may decide to weld several inches at a time), set your torch down (turned off or in a safe holding bracket), and use your hammer & dolly. The object is to remove some of the shrinking you’ve caused by welding, while keeping your panel in shape. Don’t stray too far from the weld to begin with. You’ll find you can get your shape back if you patiently work the weld area first, and then address any peripheral warpage. Remember, if your panel fits well to begin with, you should be able to make it fit when you’re finished, without resorting to drastic measures. Here is an excerpt from the directions that I send out with my shrinking disc. This may help a little with metal-finishing:" theres plennty of other articles on welding and shrinking sheetmetal..  this is just one of the guys i know that teaches and etc in metalworking....  again ... im not try'n to start shit....   if whatever works for you , do it....   but i do feel i had to explain why and how i learned to do what i do ....