Performance Mods to a 1990 B2200

then how are guys running a turbo setup with these blocks & cranks and getting better than 200hp w/o snapping the crank? this is the reason i am having the whole engine cryo treated......even if the crank & rods aren't forged they still should be good for 200 hp, and w/ cryo treating i will have the extra add insurance that it won't come apart.... trust me i'm anxious to see the number of what it will do....

the mazdas stock motor isnt a good expandable motor the best is a fe3 swapor a f2 swap if u get 200 hp there goes ur tranny and rear end( if its not buletproof) the motors are 2 vavles per cyl. with is an eco motor i sugest u got to a fe3 that comes with forgded cranks and rods stock! the money u spend on a stock mazda motor u could get alot more power out of a differnet motor if thats what ur looking for

TO FIND AN FE3 W/ THE STOCK FORGED CRANK AND RODS IS LIKE FINDING A NEEDLE IN A HAY STACK AS THEY WERE MOSTLY PUT IN JAPANESE MAZDA, AND ARE A RARE FIND IN THE US........ THE TRANNY SHOULD HOLD AS IT IS STRONGER THAN THE OLDER MAZDA TRANNYS WHICH WERE WEAKER, AND THE REAR END IS GETTING SWAPPED FOR A TOYOTA 4WD W/ LOCKN DIFF. I DID'T WANT TO MOLEST THE TRUCK AS I WANTED TO KEEP IT STOCK, OR FAIRLY CLOSE, OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE PUT A 4.3 W/ A SUPERCHARGER IN IT FOR THE SAME MONEY....... THE ONLY THING THAT MIGHT KEEP ME FROM GETTING 190-200 HP WILL BE THE INTAKE, IF IT IS TO RESTRICTIVE, I WILL MAKE ONE.

no no no. cant compare forced induction to normally aspirated.

With FORCED induction, you are increasing the amount of air and fuel in the combustion chamber without making the motor draw it in on its own.

With normally aspirated, you need to have the ability to draw that amount of air into the engine on the downstroke of the piston, and compress it enough for a complete burn.

With forced induction, restrictive air paths are not much of a hindrance, the air is being pushed in. Cam profiles are flatter because longer duration and lift just dont matter.

With normally aspirated, you need to draw the air in through these restrictions. For a literal example, try breathing through a straw. You can probably do ok, enough to keep you alive. Now run around the block. Can you still breathe through the straw?

To get 200hp out of a turbo engine, you can LOWER compression for more power. Its actually true that you can run higher boost with more timing advance on 7:1 compression than you can on 9.5:1 compression. Also, long stroke motors dont make very good turbo engines, because where turbos work best (at higher rpm) the long stroke motor will be flexing. Most turbo swaps are using the 2 liter bottom end which has the same bore but a shorter stroke and more rpm potential.

To get 200hp out of N/A motor, you are going to need 10.5:1 compression, at least. Detonation is what ruins high compression motors, and high compression and large advance is prime for detonation. You cant make the engine much bigger than it is, so a dispalcement increase would be minimal. You cant do much head work to a 2 valve squish head, and the valves are close enough to each other to prevent a large valve upgrade. High lift/duration cams will not improve the street characteristics of the motor, and if you want 200hp, a 38/38 synchronous carb wont be big enough, you'll likely need a pair of them to meet the fuel demands.

No, comparing a 200hp turbo motor to a 200hp NA motor is like comparing apples to oranges. Given the temperment difference, its actually more like comparing apples to watermelons. Thats why people with allmotor track times are so proud, because turbos go fast in just about anything.

i love you russ howd you get to be so smart

Russ D,

EVERY THING YOU SAID IS TRU, & YES I WAS COMPARING ORANGES & APPLE & WATERMELONS HAHA, BUT WHAT I WAS REPLYING TO WAS WHERE YOU SAID @ 150 HP THE CRANK WOULD SNAP, I WAS JUST MAKING A POINT THAT SOME GUYS ARE GETTING BETTER THAN 200HP AND NOT SNAPPING THE CRANK ON A FORCED ENGINE......WHICH MINE WON'T BE, BUT IT SHOULD BE CLOSE TO 200 HP WHICH IS STILL INCREASING THE OUTPUT OF THE MOTOR DRAMASTICLY, & IF A FORCED MOTOR +200 HP WILL HOLD, I DON'T SEE WHY A N/A 200 HP WOULDN'T HOLD, THAT IS WHERE I WAS COMING FROM. SO TO CURE THE PROB OF A WEAK CRANK & RODS I'M HAVING THE WHOLE MOTOR CRYO TREATED. NOW ON TO THE HP ISSUE, PAECO IND OFFERS A STAGE 4 B2200 MOTOR THAT PUTS OUT 242 HP...BUT IT'S $7900, SO IT MUST BE FEASABLE TO GET 200 HP & IF I DO IT FOR WHAT I WILL HAVE IN MY MOTOR @ $4750 I WILL BE EXTREMELY HAPPY....I DON'T KNOW AND WON'T SWEAR THAT I WILL GET 200 HP, THAT IS JUST WHAT MY COMPUTER DYNO SAYS, AND CLAIMS TO BE +/- 3%, AND THE GUY AT MY MACHINE SHOP HUNTSVILLE ENGINE & PERFORMANCE CENTER THINKS IT IS DOABLE AS WELL, HECK IF THEY CAN BUILD A 1500 HP DRAG MOTOR SURLY THE CAN GET A MEASLY 200 HP OUT OF A 4 BANGER, JEGS IS GETTING CLOSE TO 900 OUT OF A 4CYL CHEVY CAVALIER. IF NOTHING ELSE IT IS A GOOD CHALLENGE TO SEE IF I CAN DO IT! I THINK THE CARB JETTED PROPERLY WILL BE OK, THE WEBER WILL FLOW RIGHT 400 CFM, AND IF A 2300 & 5200 HOLLEY 2 BRL WILL FLOW CLOSE TO THE SAME ON THE LOWER END AND UP TO 500 CFM ON THE TOP, & ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR CIRCLE TRACK MOTORS PUTTING OUT WELL OVER 200 HP.

IRREGUARDLESS THE DEBATE CAN GO ON & ON, AND BY NO MEANS AM I CLAIMING TO BE RIGHT, BUT LIKE I SAID ABOVE IT IS A GOOD CHALLENGE TO SEE IF IT CAN BE DONE, I AM ANXIOUS TO KNOW, AND WHEN I GET THE MOTOR IN, TUNED, AND RUNNING I WILL CARRY IT & HAVE IT DYNO'D AND POST THE RESULTS........

I'd love to see it!

And dont mind my dubious nature. But 222 out of a 2.2l 8v engine that was at first a truck motor....

I am a BMW nut by nature, since I was 6 years old. I recently got the chance to buy my dream car, a homolgation special, 1990 M3 with a 2.3l 16v 4 cyl engine. This is essentially a racing car with a license plate, with thousands of hours of engine development, forged internals 4 valves per cylinder and mulitple throttle body fuel injection. Stock the car has 195 hp, at 7200 rpm. To get 235 hp costs a minimum $6500 bucks, for a 40 hp increase. 222hp, on a cast crank and strangled intake using carburetors on an engine with a 5500 rpm redline, a ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY NINE hp increase from stock, seems a little far fetched, if impossibly unstreetable.

I thought I mentioned in my reply that the 200 hp guys were likely using the forged F2t crank.I must have forgotten to add that. Even the FE3 crank is forged (albeit 2.0l). The truck crank is not though. 200hp turbo on a truck bottm end, hmm. Not reliably IMO.

IT'S ALL GOOD MY MAN, YOU SEEM TO BE VERY SHARP ON THIS KINDA STUFF, ALL I KNOW IS FROM RESEARCH, AND EXPERIENCE (NOT EXACLY AN EXPERT). CONGRATS ON YOUR DREAM CAR.....I'M STILL WISHING FOR MINE....YOU DID SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE TURBO GUYS USING THE 2.0 BLOCK/BOTTOM END, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU MENTIONED THE CRANK, I THINK THAT WAS mazdaBon2nd, BUT I KNEW THIS FROM THE RESEARCH, I LOOKED FOR 6 MONTHS TO NO AVAIL TO FIND A FORGED CRANK. ONE OF THE GUYS THAT I READ ABOUT DID THE TURBO SWAP ON THE TRUCK MOTOR, AND HAD HIS MOTOR CRYO TREATED FOR THE SAME REASON, THE FORGED BOTTOM ENDS ARE HARD TO FIND, SO I'M GOING W/ THE STOCK ONE AND STOCK RODS, BUT THE WHOLE MOTOR WILL BE CRYO TREATED, WHICH I HAVE DONE RESEARCH INTO THIS AS WELL, CHECK OUT IT IS A VERY INTERESTING SITE. IF I HAPPEN
TO RUN INTO SOME SITUATIONS THAT I NEED SOME INSIGHT ON, YOU WILL BE MY FIRST STOP.

So anyone have any suggestions on motor mods for the ol' race truck?

I don't know but damn I think that I want to get Russ D or NYTRDR24 to rebuild my engine. haha. sounds like they really know there shit.