Strange Timing Issue???

I just replaced the head on an '89 2200. I made sure the cam gear was aligned at TDC (#1 arrow pointing at the marker) and made sure the crank was at TDC. I checked that the #1 piston was at TDC. I aligned the distributor marks and then started the vehicle. It ran but when I put the timing light on it the mark was way to the left of TDC (completely off of the marks) I had to adjust the distributor moving the timing mark farther to the left for it to run decent.

I looked at the "timing check" article to see what might be up. I noticed that the rotor should be lined up with the #1 terminal when the distributor gear marks are aligned (makes sense) but on mine the rotor has already passed the #1 terminal when the marks are lined up.

In any case, it is running but I am uncomfortable with the distributor needing to be adjusted all the way forward for it to run. Hopefully it will be something simple. I really don't want to take it to get a smog check until I know the timing is right.

Can somebody help??? Am I missing something???

You are probably off one tooth on the distributor.

It's easy to do, because of the slanted drive gear.

This is what I would suggest.

Park on a flat surface.

Put the truck in third gear.

Remove the distributor cap.

Tug the truck towards you, while watching the rotor spin around.

When it gets near what would be kind of near firing on cyl #1, stop pulling for a second.

Now, look down at your timing marks.

Pull the truck forward until you are about 6 degrees BTDC, NOT TDC.

That is your firing time.

Pull the distributor out far enough to rotate the rotor. Align it so that when you drop it back in, the pole pieces and the reluctor intersect. You'll see what I am talking about when you do what I am saying.

Your truck will be about right at that point.

OK, so I did exactly what you said. When I get the reluctor and the poles to line up (which is tricky because the reluctor turns as you are putting the distributor back in) the truck starts right up but runs a little rough. The timing mark is showing about 15 degrees BTDC and I have to peg the distributor (looking at the top of the distributor, turned as far to the left as possible) with the mark at who knows where BTDC (probably about 45 degrees BTDC) to run without wanting to die.

So I tried it in the opposite direction one click of the dist. gear and now I have to peg it all the way to the right to keep it running and the timing mark still shows 45 degrees BTDC.

Unless of course I am not understanding BTDC. I figure 6 degrees is the 3rd tick mark to the left of the T on the block? So between the 10 and the T??

Very frustrating... Any ideas??

are you letting the truck warm up before doing this?






-justin

I let it warm up.

OK. . . what you need to do. . .

Is have the two parts align. . .

once the distributor is seated all the way in.

Not BEFORE you drop the distributor in.

The slanted gear will pull the alignment apart.

So you have to compensate for it.

By putting the gear (relutor / pole pieces)

Out of "alignment" one tooth.

That way,

The gear pulls the pieces INTO alignment.

At 6 degrees (3rd mark) BTDC (0)

You're almost there. . . sorry for the confusion.

And just to clarify things here. . .

Static timing has NOTHING to do with whether the truck is "hot" or "not."

Mr. MazdaTweaker. First I want to say THANKS! You have been a GREAT help!!!

I did the insertion of the distributor as you said. I aligned it so that the reluctor and poles lines up AFTER it was put in all the way. I still have to go all the way to the left on the adjuster to get it to run properly...almost and the timing mark is still at an estimated (15-20 degrees BTDC). It still seems like it is not quite running just right. When it gets warmed up, it runs a little rough. Not like it wants to die but kind of jumpy if you know what I mean.

I hate to impose but do you have any other suggestions??

On another note, when it gets warmed up it smokes some. White disipating smoke, almost like steam. there is also a fair amount of condensation coming from the pipe. I sure hope I did the Head Gasket correctly.

Slotcar, there are a couple things that I might offer at this point. . .

1. Pull the upper timing belt cover off (aggravating I know) and verify that the crank TDC mark and cam TDC marks are still aligned. I don't know how many timing belts you have replaced, but even with as many as I have done, sometimes i get a belt off one tooth on a cam. There is kind of a process to getting all of the slack out of the "pull" side during installation. Sometimes it means kind of rolling the cam forward one tooth to get the belt installed, then rolling it back to the mark to get all the slack out on the "pull" side. Do this wrong on a timing chain motor like a Jaguar XJ8, and first start will destroy every exhaust valve in 2, $2,400.00 cylinder heads. Compared to that kind of esoteric, direct acting 32 valve, DOHC V-8's these trucks are simple.

Personally,after installing the belt, and loosening the bolt that holds the tensioner, letting the tensioner pull the slack out of the back side and re-tightening the bolt, I rotate the engine 2 revolutions with a wrench on the crank bolt to verify that the timing marks align properly, and nothing binds. If you didn't do this, maybe your cam is one tooth out. And that would explain some of what you are experiencing.

2. When you had the head off, did you have it inspected for cracks or warp? I understand you had to replace the head gasket, but unless the reason for the replacement is found, you may still have an underlying issue.

Actually I bought a brand new head. Not rebuilt, but new. I noticed a crack in the head when I was changing the head gasket so I figured I was safer just getting a new one. The difference between new and rebuilt was about $70 so I just went with the new.

As for the belt, I did as you said and checked that the marks were aligned before I put it all back together and then again after I put it back together I checked by turning the crank 2 times and they were still aligned. I even tripled checked it right after you gave me te first bit of advice a few days ago. I pulled the timing cover and they were aligned.

I am beginning to think I am missing something obvious. If I go one tooth to the right on the distributor, I have to go fully adjusted to the right to keep it running. If I go 1 tooth to the left, I have to go fully adjusted to the left to run.

It seems to run well at about 10 degrees while it is warming up, but a soon as it idles down, it starts t sputter and I have to adjust it to 15-25 degrees BTDC to run ( and then it has a very slight miss).

I am confused>>> I sure hope it is something simple.

By the way, I drove it to work today thinking maybe it needed to get some pavement time as it had been sitting for quite a while according to the guy I bought it from. The white "steam" has all but disappeared. The condensation is now next to nothing.

Any next ideas on the timing issue??

Turns out the distributor was a tooth off. When I thought I was only going 1 tooth, I was actually going 2. Once I figure this out, and it's tricky 'cause you have to pull the dist. SLOWLY to feel just when it disengages, I simply "drug" it to the next tooth and bingo, it was nut's on. I did end up at about 8 degrees BTDC to get it to run tits but according to the smog dude that is OK.

I didn't waste any time, I took it into the smog station and it passed on the first time.

It's raining today, figures it would rain today being one of the 5 or 6 days out of the year that it does, but I will get a pic tomorow up of this clean little B2200 that I now have a total of about $1500 into...

....THANKS TO MR. MazdaTweaker!!!!!!!!

Next on the list...an ever so slight lowering...and new rims...

...But I am certain you all will help dial me in on that too!!