'91 B2200 Infamous HLA tick? Rod knock?

Hello all, I'm new here but I've been lurkin' for the past week or so trying to suck up as much info on my little B-Series as possible. (Repairs, swaps, mods you name it). This site is a great resource and I'm glad to finally be joining.



Anyway, I need help, might be an easy one regardless of the affect on me.

I've been driving on what I'm starting to assume is the seemingly notorious B2200/MX5 lifter tick (I'm hopeful for at this point).
I've brought it to a couple of my mechanically minded friends and they seem to gravitate towards the dreaded rod knock or spun rod bearing sound. Ironically two or three more of my buds said it sounded like lifters and that they had similar issues in their high mileage rides in the past.
One of the guys I first talked to (Not a friend, some chain auto store employee I haven't seen around since) told me that he had owned many, many Ford Rangers and had heard this exact sound as rod knock. He insisted that I "Swap a V8". Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of ponies in a V8 VROOM F'in VROOM. But even though the memory is distant I have a good feeling he was wearing a Ford hat and just wanted to see a V8 in a JDM RBV.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but... Eh, Auto chain employee..? Not ragging them, I'd enjoy that job over what I do now but IT IS generally an entry level job. His ears for tick, click, knock, crack splat and yat may be much worst than mine for all I know. I originally went there for OBD but they didn't have OBD2. So he just asked me my issues and we talked troubleshooting shortly. I then pulled out of the parking lot, *TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK* with an idea planted in my head that my lovely Japanese girl may have a potentially failing heart.


Here's the LOWDOWN

Many months ago, not sure how long now, I'm bad at these things as you'll soon read. I got my first car, 91 B2200 semi "gifted" to me by family. Apparently I was told the oil was low (5w-30), and being a new driver with ADD this statement skipped my mind. As well as the concept that my little mini would burn oil a tad quicker than I assumed.

So, naturally I turned into a drift pig and red lined all over town thinking I was the business in MY RWD Mazda. Before you call me a fool, realize that I am young and other than learning manual, I had never previously opened up an RWD on the street/car park. As you would imagine I had a blast and of course did some damage. (Going to assume ROD KNOCK due to me being a dickhead).

After the tapping sound started I quickly nursed it home and never drove that aggressively again.
I've been driving it for a couple months now, no noticeable changes really. I added some oil additive to see if it would quiet the lifters. I'm now reading that thicker viscosity would just make the tick more prominent if anything at all.

Something to note is that usually when the throttle is slightly depressed it ticks along with RPM. When driving it only ticks when I'm out of gear/between gears or like I said the throttle is only lightly feathered (it's constant). I've seen some Mx5 lifter noise videos and it sound very similar. I've now driven like this for 100's maybe 1000 or so miles.

I'd really like some help, sorry for the long post I just wanted to get as much info in as possible.


Please let me know what you think, I'm willing to upload a video if I get responses... Not sure how quick this site is.


Thanks regardless,

-C5k

Nice story. We were all young once. Hopefully, you didn't put anyone at risk.

It's really hard to tell you what your engine noise is. If you can record a video, we might do a better job helping you.
Lifters have a distinct "tick" and sound like a bunch of screwdrivers tapping inside the valve cover.
A rod noise is usually more of a single "knock", and heard lower in the engine.
There's also the possibility(since you revved the piss out of it) that you broke a skirt or two from the piston(s), and now have some piston slap.

When I saw the thread title, I was willing to bet it's going to be lifter tick because it's so prevalent (pervasive?). But after reading your post, it seems more likely it's rod knock.

Lifter tick is less a matter of having the right viscosity oil and oil pressure as it is that a lifter is worn out and leaks excessively. The lifters are usually the loudest after the truck has been parked for several days, weeks, or months. When the engine us shut down with a valve(s) open with a worn and leaky lifter, then that lifter is slowly going to compress/collapse. The longer it's sitting collapsing, the longer it's going to take to pump back up. So if you weren't experiencing any significant lifter tick noise when you bought the truck, and especially during the beginning of the drive on which it started making noise, it's unlikely that a lifter(s) just decided to collapse.

Now, since I haven't heard the noise, it's really hard to say that it is rod knock. But, by process of elimination and since your noise didn't start in a manner like most lifter noise begins, I'd have to lean that way - towards rod knock.

You should grab an audio or video recording of the sound and then let people comment from there.

One question: After you nursed it back home that day, how low was the oil? How much did you have to add to get into the normal operating range?

Yeah the HLA tick is really just optimism I suppose. I figured the way I beat it had something to do with it. You mean temp? Yeah it never read it was hot or anything which I find insane because the oil was bone dry. I don't remember how long I waited to check the oil, probably the next day I'd assume. It was a really long time ago, I was low on more than just oil at the time. I didn't keep her like I do now, too little too late huh?

One thing I neglected to mention is I have quite a bit of oil seepage from what looks to be the valve cover? It looks like the gasket is broken, I haven't taken it off due to having to remove everything else being slightly time consuming. Also since that looks to be a probability I don't have the gasket right now and she's my DD. Either way that oil additive is some nasty stuff and is likely gunking it up at this point.

Another is that the truck has been flashing a check engine light at me on and off since the day I got it, not so recently but every so often. The check engine was coming on the day I went in to check on an OBD2 scanner at the auto store.

I'm going to get a video up asap. It's pouring outside right now but if it clears tonight I'll go grab a video. I'd really like a somewhat definitive answer so I can put my mind at ease and start planning for catastrophe

PS: When check engine light is on, if I turn the car off while illuminated she will RARELY turn over first try. In which case the light will stay illuminated for maybe a mile or two, sometimes longer then dissipate. Also, not sure if relevant I'm at about 180k on original F eng.


I've been considering an obd scanner but I'm really broke right now.

Here it is. My noise, keep in mind that is was unusually quiet. But this is the first time I've semi-cold started it since I got it mid/late spring. Just imagine that ticking but louder/slightly more persistent and steady with rpm. Again, seems to go when I'm in the correct gear but if I don't shift perfectly you can hear the rpm again. Also note oil leaking on drivers side from potential crap gasket. (It may not be visible)

Also check engine light/high idle/more prominent click during intense heat (hot day). Possibly another issue or I'm crazy?

Most audible around 00:54-1:02

Sounds like a rod to me. I'd park it until you can pull the pan and look at those bearings and journals.
You also have lifter noise, but that's nothing to worry about.

You think it's both? o_O

It's currently my daily so I'll definitely need to drive it. It was burning white smoke when I turned it on. That was pretty new (cold start maybe?)

Can you break down how you came to that conclusion? Also, any recommendations as far as keeping her moving? Has the damage already been done? Have I been worsening it these past few months?

Ironically the quietest it's ran in awhile.



*SIDENOTE - I neglected to mention there seems to be very, very fine pieces of metal in the oil. I touched some a few days ago and it was an awful decision.

There is no doubt about damage. With the knock and metallic sheen in the oil, your bearing is done. Keep driving it like that, and when it eventually comes apart, you might send the rod through the block.

So what you're essentially telling me is, I'm SOL unless I rebuild or replace?

I really can't afford to do anything to it unless it's running unfortunately. As it is my daily.

Keep the oil full and the rpms low as possible without bogging it.... it sound terminal to me