help....no spark

^ Not stupid at all. I know we've all forgotten the most obvious of things at one point.

last night when we originally had the problem, aaron (the guy who built the motor) pulled off the cap to make sure the rotor was in there. i believe it is the same cap & rotor that was on the truck when the motor went it. im not sure if he replaced it or not well at least the rotor im not sure of...the cap is the same. so probably not. as far as how the motor was timed when he initially put it together i am unsure of. i would have to ask him. when he hooked up his timing light to the truck he hooked it to the #1 wire and as the motor cranked the light never flickered. the other connections were fine (as far as + and -) the dist. wire itself is plugged in. the contact button and the air gap i am unsure of ill pull it off tonight and look for myself. when it was pulled off last night aaron just checked to make sure the rotor was there. also, the air gap...how would i go about checking that? is that the space between the rotor tip and the plug contacts? although the motor was trashed, it was in running condition when i pulled it out so all that stuff worked before but not now. it might be worth replacing the cap and rotor. im also using 8.5mm wires....its a little excessive for the application could that be a problem? its been a fiasco with the wires but i want 8mm still even though i have the 8.5mm. lol.

I hope he timed the motor right. These motors arent like a small block Chevy where you can put it all together, and set the timing after. I did mine by the manual, and everything had to be set right before you put the timing chain on.

[quote="Twisted Minis"]I hope he timed the motor right.

OK, timing lesson 101 provided the cam timing is correct, thats not the same as ignition timing by the way, so we'll start there with cam timing.
Pull #1 spark plug, with a 19mm socket on the crank pulley bolt bar the engine over by hand "clockwise only" holding a finger over the open plug hole, when you feel the cylinder starting to build compression watch and turn it slowly until the timing mark on the crank pully lines up with the TDC O mark on the timing pointer, now you'll have to pull the valve cover, the alignment dowel pin on the cam gear should be just slightly left of straight up on the camshaft. If all checks out OK to this point, without turning the engine pull the distributor cap, the rotor should be pointing to about the 10 oclock position, use the cap to make a mental note of where #1 plug wire tower is on the cap and position the rotor to that approximate spot, may have to pull distributor and reinsert it a few times to get it to line up.
Once that is done the rotor points to the #1 plug tower, the distributor is fully seated in a general centered position on the holddown bolt slot so you have room to time either direction, loosely put the bolt in to hold the distributor from backing out, put the spark plug in the wire, ground the plug threads to one of the valve cover acorn nuts or a suitable metal ground, turn the key to the on position but don't crank it over, now twist the distributor back and forth, may take a quicker twist action, but as you twist it back and forth the spark plug should spark if grounded good. It may take a few tries but just as it sparks stop and snug the distributor down, button everything up, its now static timed and ready to fire, it should fire and run with no problems as the ignition timing will be close enough to make it run, after it starts complete with a timing light to set it to spec and your off and running. Whew!!! good luck

The grounding of the ignitor was mentioned but you should check to make sure the ignitor is good,Everything may be ground good abut if the ignitor is not working then it wont boost the spark enough to start

im not sure of what or how the timing was set, i just tried to call him a minute ago to ask but there wasnt an answer. this may be the case. i hope not but its a possibility. the guy who built the motor builds small blocks for race cars and what not so he may have done it wrong. he did have the book though to check all the torque specs for this motor but the timing part he might have overlooked if it is the case. the coil was in perfect working condition when i pulled it out. all i had done with it was pull it off and set it on the bench, it just sat there until i put it back on a few days ago. im not saying that its not bad but i dont see as to how.

if i turn the motor by hand with my finger on the #1 hole, exactly how would i know its at TDC? i have never done this before i know what a dirt bike feels like at TDC but thats way different. im not sure what it will feel like when its there, would it be kind of a sudden stop or be harder to turn the crank....in other words say it were off it would be fairly easy to turn by hand but once at TDC would i have to put muscle to it to turn after that assuming my finger is on the hole the whole time? could i leave the plug in for this step and pull it out afterward? also, could i be able to use a flashlight to visually see the piston in position at TDC? sorry for the million question, but i just want to be sure of this as i dont want to mess anything up.

when i pull the valve cover off and the dowel pin isnt where it should be how would i go about correcting it? or does that correlate (sp) with the #1 at TDC? i would like to get this done in the least amount to tries because im afraid of the pistons moving up and down in the cylinders without oil pumping. it is full of oil but i dont know how well it lubricates without running. im going to print out what you said and review it along with the hanse manual i got so i could possibly see some pictures. thank you guys so much for all the help, this whole project has been rough and its been a battle with the motor.

oh i forgot, i havent inspected it but i never really noticed it either but i painted my crankshaft pully with a rattle can. its just black but i dont know if the mark is visible. ill check in the morning for sure or not, thats why i asked if there is a way to tell TDC of #1 without the mark at 0 on the timing plate.

this may be a dumb question but im assuming the crank pully only goes on one way? correct? i have never pulled it off before and didnt put it on so i just wanna make sure.

Yeah its doubtful that the coil or igniter went bad just sitting, but stranger things do happen, but we'll assume they are OK at this point.
Your best bet is to pull all the plugs out, it'll make for turning the engine over by hand a lot easier because you won't be fighting the compression as the pistons are going up on the compression stroke, also make sure the tranny is in neutral, that makes it a whole lot easier too and you won't wonder why its pushing you into the wall in the garage or working its way down the street to the neighbors
With your finger pushed tightly over the sparkplug hole you will be able to tell when the piston is coming up on the compression stroke, it will start building up pressure like an air hose, once the piston breaks over TDC it will move easier so you gotta feel and watch the timing marks on the pully so you can stop when it hits 0', it should start building pressure a good inch and a half or so from o and the timing mark on the damper will be coming up from the left side.
The crank damper, the lower timing gear are both indexed to the crank at 0 degrees so when the timing mark is on 0 the piston will be at TDC, you can try to sneek a peek with a flashlight down the spark plug hole but its not gonna tell you anything, you'll see a glimpse of the piston top but thats about all, no real means to say its at TDC, just trust the timing marker.
Theres actually 2 times the piston comes to TDC in the firing sequence but the compression stroke is the one you want, the other time is on the exhaust stroke and the exhaust valve is open so no compression will be present.
Now that you have the engine turned over to TDC on the compression stroke, the timing marks are aligned on the crank pully and timing tab on the timing chain cover you can look at the camshaft gear dowel pin, it like I said should be pointing nearly stright up at 12 oclock but just slightly off to the left. If not then the cam shaft timing is out of place. originally and some aftermarket chain kits have 2 shiny links on the chain that are refferenced to the timing marks when originally installed, if yours has them and they are not lined up with the mark on the gear don't worry as the intial install is aligned, once turned over they go out of sync and it takes numerous revolutions of the engine before they ever come together again in sync because of the gear tooth count between the cam and crank gears so don't worry or concern yourself about them.
OK, back to the cam, if the dowel is not where it should be, pull the cam gear bolt out wiggle the gear off, probably have to use a pair of channel locks or a flat screwdriver on the dowel pin, careful not to bend or bugger up the pin or mounting surface, but anyrate you gotta rotate the cam so the dowel is facing 12 oclock, will take some effort as your moving the entire valvetrain, rockers, springs, valves, and it will want to jump as opposed to turing smoothly but thats normal because of the forementioned valve goodies.
Once you have the cam in place its time to reinstall the cam gear, when you pulled it off the tensioner down inside popped out under spring pressure so when you lift the cam gear up it will appear to be about a half inch short, a little pulling pressure or a lever in the bolt hole will get the tensioner to push back in, make sure to use some pad on the lever where you pry on the head surface to keep from gouging it up, sometimes a little bouncing up and down on the lever will get it to pop in, just be slow and gentle, it'll eventually go and the gear and chain will come back to normal position to fit back on the cam, oops, forgot, if you did move the cam and have to reposition the gear, just walk the chain around the gear a tooth at a time until you are where it needs to be, once done align the gear and cam, may take a little wiggling or fudging of the cam to get them exact but once done the crank pully should still be on the 0 mark and the dowel on the cam should be just slightly left off 12 noon, it won't be a full tooth of the chain, if not repeat until its there and your done. Then follow the other steps mentioned earlier to static time it and your good to go provided you have spark then. Remember this is only determining the cam timing is where its supposed to be, not the spark issue, you by all rights should still have spark as the distributor turns provided everything is connected and working, it just might not be sparking when and where it needs to do so to make it run if the cam is out, the distributor is off, ect.
PS. a few small squirts of oil down the plug holes will add some lube to the cylinders, but the minimal turning by hand shouldn't pose any problems.
Best of luck. damn!! my fingers tired

awesome! nook, your the man!

i was out in the garage earlier today running the test light and didnt come up with any obvious problems. i feel confident with what i had done with the wiring as i was very careful as to what i was doing for fear of this happening. lol. everything was labeled when it was pulled apart and went right back to where i got it from. hell it took me 3 nights just to disconnect everything. i was reading the book just a few minutes ago and it went over what you just said although the parts that confused me a little bit you just clarified those so i think i should be okay if it comes to fixing an issue such as this. before i check out the timing of everything, i will be sure to check the plug to see if its sparking. i had to do some family stuff today so i didnt get a chance to check that but tomorrow this thing is going to run. if the plug is sparking ill proceed onto the checking of the timing stuff.

if the timing were off at the worse case senario, with a timing light hooked up to the motor at #1, the light should still flicker as the plug sparks right? in this particular case, the timing light was hooked up properly but didnt flicker as the motor turned over. anyways, tomorrow is going to be a long day of trouble shooting. thanks for taking the time to explain all this in detail for me, i'll report back tomorrow. lol. Thanks again!

well i was out there today and got a little further. i talked to the engine guy, he said that the timing was done correctly according to the book specs so i dont feel that is it. its a spark issue. i was testing some more wires around the coil and i have found that the plug from the harness to the coil has one hot wire leading to it which i followed and it leads into the coil so i dont think its a power problem. the other wire which is a little smaller in gauge i believe is a ground wire but when tested nothing happened. when i was sectioning peices out of my harness those wires i never touched because they come from the harness that leaves the cab im assuming it comes from the ignition which i didnt touch at all. is that wire a ground? i also noticed that the wires that run up to the dist. also didnt show anysigns of power or ground when i tested them. one weird thing i noticed was someone had mentioned earlier that the coil grounds to what ever it mounts to. when the key is turned off the coil is grouded everywere i touch it so i know its making contact with the body correctly but when the key is turned on the coil doesnt show any signs of being grounded. why is that? bad coil maybe? the motor guy said that coils can go bad just sitting but that just seems weird. it sat in one spot for about 4 months untouched. anywho here is a picture of what im workin with here maybe it will shed some light.

my intdex finger is on the hot wire. the wire still maintains power after the plug all the way into the coil. the other wire just below i believe is a ground but im not sure. it was mentioned earler that the coil itself grounds to the body. if that is the case what is wire for below the powerwire.



since i know its getting power, im going to ghetto rig a few things and force feed it a ground with some extra wire i got and see what happens.