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Air Ride Suspensions \ 4-link tried to kill me4-link tried to kill me
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balcar
+1y
Thanks russ, dunno crap about the true offroad guys. I do know lots can be learned from them fuckers though.
There are some good books out there, I read "engineering to win" has lots of good stuff, and another one I liked was "doorslammers". The first one had lots of good stuff about metaluralgy, and the second has good stuff about suspension theroy and such. Neither has any info on doing reverse 4-links or 2 links, LOL, just cause its "not right".
There are some good books out there, I read "engineering to win" has lots of good stuff, and another one I liked was "doorslammers". The first one had lots of good stuff about metaluralgy, and the second has good stuff about suspension theroy and such. Neither has any info on doing reverse 4-links or 2 links, LOL, just cause its "not right".
purplekush
+1y
Edited: 10/8/2006 6:21:30 PM by FarBeyondDriven
Originally posted by Russ-D
Originally posted by FarBeyondDriven
no im telling you... there is a ford f150 TROPHY TRUCK that has a reverse 4 link they are modified giant motorsports trailing arms ran backwards . it DOES perform.. it ran the baja 1000 in like 16 something hours wich is average for a trophy truck i took pictures of it myself
not tryin to be a dick or argue but it DOES work
No, you dont know what you are talking about. What you are describing is exactly what BioMax called a mezzanine setup, they are also called nezzy links and sometimes called cantilever setups. They STILL HAVE FORWARD LINKS which control movement of the rear end and the upper bars are cantilevered over the axle and used for support thusly.
and in practice it looks like this
and this kind of proves my point, people who DONT know what they are talking about get into discussions with people who DO and other people take their WRONG advice.
Not a reverse four link on a trophy truck, because that would be pure and abject stupidity.
thats not a trophy truck..unless SCORE started letting front engine trucks race trophy truck class and run smaller than 37" tire.. looks like a well built pro truck and that very well might be the setup but its on a different truck and in the video and pics i have u cant see the forward links i used it in a video and i have pics somewhere ill toss em up..
Originally posted by Russ-D
Originally posted by FarBeyondDriven
no im telling you... there is a ford f150 TROPHY TRUCK that has a reverse 4 link they are modified giant motorsports trailing arms ran backwards . it DOES perform.. it ran the baja 1000 in like 16 something hours wich is average for a trophy truck i took pictures of it myself
not tryin to be a dick or argue but it DOES work
No, you dont know what you are talking about. What you are describing is exactly what BioMax called a mezzanine setup, they are also called nezzy links and sometimes called cantilever setups. They STILL HAVE FORWARD LINKS which control movement of the rear end and the upper bars are cantilevered over the axle and used for support thusly.
and in practice it looks like this
and this kind of proves my point, people who DONT know what they are talking about get into discussions with people who DO and other people take their WRONG advice.
Not a reverse four link on a trophy truck, because that would be pure and abject stupidity.
thats not a trophy truck..unless SCORE started letting front engine trucks race trophy truck class and run smaller than 37" tire.. looks like a well built pro truck and that very well might be the setup but its on a different truck and in the video and pics i have u cant see the forward links i used it in a video and i have pics somewhere ill toss em up..
dssur
+1y
Originally posted by FarBeyondDriven
thats not a trophy truck..unless SCORE started letting front engine trucks race trophy truck class and run smaller than 37" tire.. looks like a well built pro truck and that very well might be the setup but its on a different truck and in the video and pics i have u cant see the forward links i used it in a video and i have pics somewhere ill toss em up..
I chose that picture of a mezzanine setup BECAUSE its showed the forward links. The forward links can be a lot smaller because they are not needed to carry the weight of the truck as well as locate the axle. This keeps the springs from absorbing some of the power under acceleration and transfers it right to the chassis. Its why they use horst link rear suspensions on mountain bikes, so that the suspension doesnt eat up most of the power from the pedals.
What it comes down to, is that you saw something you THOUGHT was a reverse, and its not. You're a fan of score action? Go to one of the race teams and tell them your idea for all bars backwards and then get back to us with how they react. It arcs the WRONG WAY to have any kind of big suspension travel, why cant you understand even that?
thats not a trophy truck..unless SCORE started letting front engine trucks race trophy truck class and run smaller than 37" tire.. looks like a well built pro truck and that very well might be the setup but its on a different truck and in the video and pics i have u cant see the forward links i used it in a video and i have pics somewhere ill toss em up..
I chose that picture of a mezzanine setup BECAUSE its showed the forward links. The forward links can be a lot smaller because they are not needed to carry the weight of the truck as well as locate the axle. This keeps the springs from absorbing some of the power under acceleration and transfers it right to the chassis. Its why they use horst link rear suspensions on mountain bikes, so that the suspension doesnt eat up most of the power from the pedals.
What it comes down to, is that you saw something you THOUGHT was a reverse, and its not. You're a fan of score action? Go to one of the race teams and tell them your idea for all bars backwards and then get back to us with how they react. It arcs the WRONG WAY to have any kind of big suspension travel, why cant you understand even that?
purplekush
+1y
Edited: 10/8/2006 8:11:37 PM by FarBeyondDriven
Originally posted by Russ-D
Originally posted by FarBeyondDriven
thats not a trophy truck..unless SCORE started letting front engine trucks race trophy truck class and run smaller than 37" tire.. looks like a well built pro truck and that very well might be the setup but its on a different truck and in the video and pics i have u cant see the forward links i used it in a video and i have pics somewhere ill toss em up..
I chose that picture of a mezzanine setup BECAUSE its showed the forward links. The forward links can be a lot smaller because they are not needed to carry the weight of the truck as well as locate the axle. This keeps the springs from absorbing some of the power under acceleration and transfers it right to the chassis. Its why they use horst link rear suspensions on mountain bikes, so that the suspension doesnt eat up most of the power from the pedals.
What it comes down to, is that you saw something you THOUGHT was a reverse, and its not. You're a fan of score action? Go to one of the race teams and tell them your idea for all bars backwards and then get back to us with how they react. It arcs the WRONG WAY to have any kind of big suspension travel, why cant you understand even that?
i didnt say its the best way to setup your suspension im just saying its what it looked like in the pics and video and its not my idea.. just what i thought i saw
ya im a huge fan of score eventsour f150 is 4 linked with king 16" coilovers with 500/450 coils out back 450/350 up front and a 16" tripple bypass and king air bumps at each corner it cycles 34" out back and 23.5 up frontstill needs aloooot of work before its up to score standards
Originally posted by Russ-D
Originally posted by FarBeyondDriven
thats not a trophy truck..unless SCORE started letting front engine trucks race trophy truck class and run smaller than 37" tire.. looks like a well built pro truck and that very well might be the setup but its on a different truck and in the video and pics i have u cant see the forward links i used it in a video and i have pics somewhere ill toss em up..
I chose that picture of a mezzanine setup BECAUSE its showed the forward links. The forward links can be a lot smaller because they are not needed to carry the weight of the truck as well as locate the axle. This keeps the springs from absorbing some of the power under acceleration and transfers it right to the chassis. Its why they use horst link rear suspensions on mountain bikes, so that the suspension doesnt eat up most of the power from the pedals.
What it comes down to, is that you saw something you THOUGHT was a reverse, and its not. You're a fan of score action? Go to one of the race teams and tell them your idea for all bars backwards and then get back to us with how they react. It arcs the WRONG WAY to have any kind of big suspension travel, why cant you understand even that?
i didnt say its the best way to setup your suspension im just saying its what it looked like in the pics and video and its not my idea.. just what i thought i saw
ya im a huge fan of score eventsour f150 is 4 linked with king 16" coilovers with 500/450 coils out back 450/350 up front and a 16" tripple bypass and king air bumps at each corner it cycles 34" out back and 23.5 up frontstill needs aloooot of work before its up to score standards
grip
+1y
The placment of the bars affects how a car will dive.If the upper bars are level the car will brake level.If the lower bars are level the car will squat slightly under load.On the other hand to get a reverse to operate correct through out the range and still have the correct pinion angle is very difficult and I would not recommend it to anyone that doesn't understand suspension theory.In fact I only use it when a standard four link conflicts with the back seat.But the fact still remains i have tested and proven a reverse without adverse nose dive or load lift..............
jaredmxg
+1y
There will always be alot of arguments about ways to setup the links. Myself having build multiple reverse setups and multiple forward setups, can say that alot, alot of it is the measurements. Having looked at the truck this weekend and compairing it too another truck I have done I can clearly see where there is problem areas. I made sure to read all the previous post about this before posting. Yes I can tell you the upper pass side bar is off causing the axle to rotate when it lifts up and down. Another problem i clearly saw was the bolts not being fully tight. So everybody should probably chill out with the arguments about the cause and effect of the Reverse setup. If setup correctly Very safe and reliable. I wouldnt say thats just an openion ither.
BioMax
+1y
Anybody why has read my recent article on rear suspension design (in MiniTruckin') will know that I do believe that a reverse 4-link can be used successfully. And I assure you that I have built more than my share of them. But, they will never do more than hold the rear-end under the vehicle.
None of the books that deal with suspension engineering even entertain the idea of a reverse 4-link. Even Carrol Smith (Engineer to win) touches on a few suspension designs that he thinks are worthless, but no reverse 4-link, not because he doesn
None of the books that deal with suspension engineering even entertain the idea of a reverse 4-link. Even Carrol Smith (Engineer to win) touches on a few suspension designs that he thinks are worthless, but no reverse 4-link, not because he doesn
dssur
+1y
Originally posted by havok
yuppers, that about sums it up. Thanks!
I concur. The only two reasons I protest so loudly on these and 2 link threads are 1) I am an engineer, and I dont say that to lend credibility to my responses but because from an ethical standpoint I have been taught to ALWAYS PROTECT THE END USER or be sued for negligence. I cannot endorse reverse link setups in any form like BioMax can because from an engineering standpoint they are unsafe. Sorry. Never. 2) Because there is always someone who reads these threads and makes the decision to use a reverse 4 link based on the people who say "it works". I believe in COMPLETE information and to represent both sides fairly. The weight of evidence is on the side of reverse being bad. There are people who make them work right in one aspect or another, but not all. I am not self absorbed enough to care about being villified on a public forum so call me a hater, a jerk, or an asshole for pointing out the flaws and how they can't be overcome.
Done.
yuppers, that about sums it up. Thanks!
I concur. The only two reasons I protest so loudly on these and 2 link threads are 1) I am an engineer, and I dont say that to lend credibility to my responses but because from an ethical standpoint I have been taught to ALWAYS PROTECT THE END USER or be sued for negligence. I cannot endorse reverse link setups in any form like BioMax can because from an engineering standpoint they are unsafe. Sorry. Never. 2) Because there is always someone who reads these threads and makes the decision to use a reverse 4 link based on the people who say "it works". I believe in COMPLETE information and to represent both sides fairly. The weight of evidence is on the side of reverse being bad. There are people who make them work right in one aspect or another, but not all. I am not self absorbed enough to care about being villified on a public forum so call me a hater, a jerk, or an asshole for pointing out the flaws and how they can't be overcome.
Done.