Beware of false prophets!

"established by God for their benefit"... gee, how about maybe written down by men who used their eyes and ears to observe the world around them, figured out what had to be done and then pretended "god" had created these rules in order to give them more weight and importance??

However, these so-called laws of cleanliness have all been rendered obsolete with the knowledge we now have of microbes, viruses, infection, refrigeration, conception, etc... all products of science.

Why look for a supernatural explanation when the simple truth is under our nose... man did all this, not some ooga-booga invisible all-knowing, all-seeing supreme being.

As for Gods existence. Well thats your opinion and your entitled to that, we can agree to disagree.

Those laws of cleanliness were a new idea to those people at that time. they were given to Moses by God. Not from his own discernment. The practice of removing yourself from your dwelling and burying your excrement away from people was a NEW idea.
In early european history 100s of years later, people were tossing their waste in the streets, the penalty for that, the plague.
Made obsolete NO, verified as beneficial , YES.

These ideas are not obsolete at all, they are proven by science to be beneficial for health.

Again by what yer saying I dont think you have any bible knowledge with which to debate it, I could quote all day but i see it wont do any good as you were unable to make the previous point clear. And maybe missed the one about the earth being round. Before it was proven, but maybe that was an unpopular idea at the time, but somebodys eyes and ears were able to tell them these things? lol

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I too studied these subjects and I also do not believe everything came from nothing... but it did not come from an omnipotent supreme being... that's a lazy explanation.[/quote]

Lazy, hmmm. but you didnt bother to offer an explanation
LOL, I guess we cant always agree with each other, but I dont enter a debate by making fun of others' beliefs first, insisting they are lazy minded or dumb, .......until forced.
Okay okay I'm sorry nobody is perfect.
This sounds corny but just cuz ya dont believe in him, he believes in you.

I already pointed out that the "crutch" theory is very wrong and proves a lack of understanding by those who just plain out don't believe the Bible, or haven't even tried tor ead it, of what Christianity is about. It is NOT about getting something, having a "helping hand" to get us through something. Look at the disciples of Christ and what happened to each and every one of them.

Did you know of the 12 of them, they were each murdered for their beliefs in Christ? Did you know most of Paul's letters to the churches were written while he was wrongly imprisoned? Same kind of things happened to the most prominent followers in the Old Testament as well. You think Moses had fun spending 40 years in the desert with people swaying back and forth about their belief? Any of these sound like they were getting some "crutch" help?

Hmmm it was the Gospel that caused these guys to have the hardest lives of all lol. If they'd just renounced their faith, they would have lives perfectly normal lives probably. They'd definitely lived happier (based on earthly standards) lives lol.


Hoc, you are correct in that yes most likely I would have come up in that same India religion. But it is the duty of us, the followers of Christ, to make sure the name of Christ is spread to all 4 corners of the earth...and it will be before Christ returns. I don't know what/how God treats those who don't know the name of Christ right now. I believe God calls whom He wills to become children of Christ.

We are called to be Christians, we are called to go out and preach the "Good Word" to all and every nation. This is not commanded for financial gain, it is commanded so that even those in distant lands will be awakened to the life giving name of Jesus Christ.

It's my opinion that the "I'll take of my own beliefs and life, and let someone else have their own" is a selfish thought. For fear of not offending someone you'd let them go on living a lie and then say "it's not my fault" lol. To me, this thought in itself speaks for you being American lol. That's what we've all become, "just take care of myself, that's all I gotta worry about, I don't care how my neighbor lives as long as he don't bother me."

For me, my heart breaks for those who don't know Christ. It breaks to know someone died that didn't know beyond the shadow of a doubt where he/she'd be going after death. I watch a lot of reality shows (MTV sadly lol) and my heart cries out for God to break into these people's lives and free them from the bondage of sin.

You see, the world believes religion to be a form of bondage. But Christ, and many other people in the Bible, says that we are slaves to sin, and Christ has come to set us free. And, being a Christian, in all honesty there is a sense of freedom, a sense of weightlessness. It's something that I don't think can be described in words. The Bible says that without faith in Christ we are dead already, but Christ came so that we could have life and have it more abundantly, and I can attest to this. I love my life and I want everyone to feel the same way, the same freedom, and the blessed assurance of salvation that comes only through Christ.


Lalunette, in all honesty most of your "aetheist" have never really studied the facts behind the Bible. It's truths, it's reliability vs other historical works, nor how it really has helped scientist make many new discoveries. Wars were patterned after those of the Bible. Ships are built to the same specs as the Ark of Noah. Archeologist have found many areas pointed out by the Bible and what happened to these areas by the words of the Bible. Science has proved the Bible as much as the Bible has proved science.

There have been so many "aetheist" that have thought they could disclaim the Bible and yet none have, and none ever will. It seems really they find it's truths to be inescapable and then begin to believe it themselves lol. Look it up, you'll find some good reading I'm reading Lee Strobel right now "The Case for Christ". He didn't set out to disprove it, he just didn't believe it due to school teaching etc. But, he made sure he evaluated it's vailidity by talking to some of the most notable scientist, historians, scholars, etc., before putting his faith in the "Unseen".

We are not here to convince you to believe. I only show why I believe, or what I believe and have no problems sharing with any of you and debating it in a mature level. If you don't believe after all I, or anyone else says, then so be it, but atleast you can't say you've never heard


Btw this is why I have no probs with "false prophets" (as Hex called this dude), or a lot fo the other "debatable" stuff that comes on tv or in the media. I think it opens the door for good discussion, debate, and allows us to lay out the facts. My wife gets mad cuz I watch a lot of this type stuff lol.

God bless

In response to 1 Hot looking at Christianity in the wrong light?? U mean that Im not looking at Christianity the way u do.Correct. I am not.I have looked at it the way u do and found it and other organized,systemitized religions useful up to a point and beyond that woefully lacking.
I have studied the Bible,the Koran ,the Talmud,the Tibetan Book of the Dead and have found ALL of them enlightening,useful and full of universal truths.I have also read Shockwave Rider,Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance,Farenheit 451 and found them enlightening,useful and containing universal truths.For those of u that use scripture to "prove" ur points,I remind you That "the Devil can quote scripture for his own purpose".Using the single source foundation for ur belief system to prove a point becomes circular logic at some point.At any rate,as I stated before,u believe what u wish and I will travel the road I have chosen.I too am not offended by any reasonable discussion or the presentation of anyones opinions on controversial subjects.That is what makes our particular society so marvelous-we can do this all day long,no one gets offended and we are all free to say anything we wish without fear of retribution.May the sun always shine on us and eliminate the darkness of ignorance.BJ

Bump.ANd one other comment before I close on this.The comment was made that it was "selfish"of me to say that u believe what u wish and I will travel my own road.It seems to me far more selfish to say to another human "what u believe is wrong and let me tell u what I believe so I can change ur mind"How arrogant and selfish is that?BJ

Ya, that does sound corny 'cause no matter what you say, or believe, or rationalize, or quote from the Bible, I just plain flat out do not believe in ANY religion whatsoever, and that includes the catholic religion.

As for 1HotDawg telling me I don't know my Bible, he couldn't be more wrong. I was raised to be a good little RC drone, went to church every Sunday, was part of the catholic scouts program, taught Sunday school for 12 years, raised my kids to be good little RC drones... until I became convinced it was all a complete waste of time.

What I find quaint and cute is what I perceive as being every pro-religious posters need to try and convince me that there is something wrong with me for not being religious, for not having truly "understood" god or christ or the bible and that I should try "harder", go to a different church, etc... until I finally fall back into the fold.

Well, let me assure you that there is nothing wrong with me, I am a fine moral upstanding citizen of my community, despite my non-religiousness. My children have not become rapists or killers or drug-addicts because I no longer bring them to church. They are also fine moral upstanding citizens of their community.

My partner, who is also non-religious, and I have decided that the children we are adopting from China will be raised in a humanisitc home free of any supernatural or mystical tendencies, where religiion is treated as any other subject of study, i.e. they will learn what religion is and what religions there are around the world but we will not attend church or belong to a religious community. We have many religious-type books in our home (ex. the bible, the koran, buddist texts, etc.) so our children can read about these religions and make up their mind when they are older.

So, in closing, rant and rave about false prophets, the "end times", the second coming of JC, or whatever else you want but just know that there are people out there who live their life free of any supernatural or mystical influences and think that religion has caused enough pain and suffering (the crusades, the witch hunts, the abortion debate, the Iraq quagmire, just ot name a few) that we should start thinking about a new way to inerpret our world.

Here endeth the rant...

My only reply I feel I still need to make is this lol:

Hoc, I didn't mean YOU are being selfish in the way you seem to have taken it. I'm meaning it is more about "the self" to say "you do what you will, believe what you will, whatever, and I'll do the same. If you believe the wrong thing then that's up to you, I'm not going to share the Truth with you, because I don't want to offend you." Hopefully you understand what I mean


Lul, knowing the Word and hearing the Word are 2 totally different experiences. Look at the numbers of teens that once they graduate high school they leave the Church. These are kids who just like you, went to church all their life but never seemed to "get it" per say. (I know you're not a teen lol, but you get what I'm saying).

A lot of parents think bringing their child up in the church is all it takes. They don't then go home and practice what they read, or are taught. It's similar to parents that take their kids to school and use it as a baby sitter really lol. So going to church does nothing for children, adults, or whom ever really. It's not about the religious aspects....following the "rule" of going to church, etc....it's about a personaly relationship with Christ...and Christ came to end the religious bull crap that was being spread in His time.

As for the "religion has caused enough pain/suffering" topic. It's not Christianity, true Christianity, that caused any of these things. Did Christ Himself start any wars while here on earth? Did He command us to do so? Then what's the problem? WE ARE! It's us humans who do not get what Christ told us to do, and how to do it, that have gone out with a misunderstanding of Scripture, or listened to someone else tell us what Scripture says (hence the Crusades), and done the wrong evil things that have been done. Christ told us to follow 2 commandments only basically. Love Him, and love your neighbor. Niether of these should cause a war or suffering should it?

I don't preach against homosexuality, abortion, etc. or any other sin to be singled out. I believe we should preach the love and goodness of Christ and the commandments He taught us as being most important, and allowing that if the person takes care of just those 2 commandments, then the fulfillment of the other commandments shall fall into place. If we all did this, and stopped the picketing, judging crap, then the world would be as Christ desired us to make it imo.

Many people live their lives without God, I did as well, but I know how much better it is with Him and will hopefully never "go back"



I would love to know what "convinced" you of this?

Oh yeah, I don't see where I told you, Lulanette, specifically "There's something wrong with you because you don't believe, and you should read your Bible harder, try harder, find another church." I actually said, I'm not trying to convince either of you. I'm merely telling you what, why, I believe what I believe and why it differs.


Hoc, by "looking at Christianity in the wrong light" I meant nothing more than you had called it (religion period) a "crutch". A crutch implies you think religion is there to "help you get a long in some way in life", and that's not at all what Christianity is about...atleast not for me.

your here right? you believe now.

i mean you can actually tell me you believe in the big bang theory? if there even was a big bang theory where did the big bang come from? thats questions you can ask god then when that day comes. theres all kind of questions i'm gonna ask.....