Bible facts - for info only

Well then enlighten me/us. Who wrote the first "drafts" of the Bible? And are we looking at it as the Bible as a whole or the individual writings?

As for the "left out books", you are correct there are much mroe than just a few books about Christ/God not included in the Bible itself. Why? 2 reasons. 1. How big do you really want the Bible to be, and how many times must the same things be repeated? 2. There are books don't "Agree" with the majority of what we know about Christ, and the details of His life. A lot of those were the Gnostic gospels.

Once again though you are really simplifying the scriptures to say that it's "hearsay" was written. There's 2 big things Christians believe about how the Bible was written. 1. It was fully God breathed/inspired. 2. The books (specially the Gospels/NT texts) were written by those who experienced the happenings firsthand and not via just hearsay. Almost all of the NT is from first hand accounts, from the Gospels themselves to the books Paul wrote which fully rely on the ealiest Christians and some of the disciples themselves (Luke for one), and look at the Book of Acts, which details the first beginnings of the Church, in which Paul and Luke both wrote....while Paul was imprisoned (numerous times) Luke wrote some of the Book.

Here's the way I see your theory Mullet. You can believe the "story" idea all ya want when looking at the Old Testament, (really only parts though, cuz historical facts show lots of it as accurate already), but when it comes to the New Testament, that theory doesn't fly. The 4 Gospel writers probably did write most of there's from memory, but I don't think the 4 of them...which did not write their books even in the same area as the other ones , would have "mistaken" much (if any) of the major things about Christ's life. Then you've also got the other writings, Acts, all of Paul's letters, John's letters, Peter's letters, etc. That were all written from first hand experience, and most likely written while the events were occuring (we know Paul wrote to the churches while in prison), and they also concur with the earlier Gospels.

You see, people think that the Bible is just speperate books put together stating seperate things. But in fact they all tell one amzing story from Genesis to the Book or Revelation, all of which concur with one another, all of which have been studied front to back for thousands of years in efforts to prove and in efforts to deny their reliability. Yet the Bible stands strong. THe #1 book sold ever. The one book read by more than any other. The one Book cast into "debates" more than any other, and still it comes out unscaved, unharmed, and proven once again, undeniable lol.



You're right, they didn't. They didn't begin to write the things of His life and death down until they had completed thir teaching ministries. So basically, they taught all that they had seen about Christ repeatedly, most likely daily for up to 60 years after Christ's death. Now if someone's teaching for anywhere near half this long, the same things day in and day out about what they'd seen and experience with the One they call God, do you really think they'd have made many mistakes when putting it to pen and paper? I mean hey, if they didn't do a thing but sit on their butts and never taught about Christ again until the time they decided to write it down, then maybe you'd have a valid argument, but as it is, it's not a valid...nor educated argument.


Now we have that argument for Christ. Lets look at Muhammad. Do you know how long the writings of him were written after his death? 300+ years. Do ya think they're as accurate as Christ's writings?

Well,riddle me this one,Joker.Ancient Hebrew is a very difficult language to learn.It is primarily a spoken dialect,and writing it down is a most laborious process.Most of the disciples were laborers.How many of them even knew how to write?If they did they may have been writing with a stylus on clay tablets,even more difficult.I suspect that even New Testament writings were done years after Christ was gone,and by word of mouth from believers to a scribe.As stated above,memory is not very accurate and ,like fish stories,changes with time.So,a literal reading of any book of history,Bible or not,should be done with much care and consideration of the entire environment from which it came.BJ

They were using papyrus And yes many of them used scribes who were very fluent in the language and translation of the spoken word. (hence why they were called SCRIBES in the first place )




Look basically, I'm not trying to prove anything to you except that the typical lame excuses for how the Bible "is/could be" misinterpreted don't hold water to just a little bit of self study on the subject. What people need to do is spend a whole 5-10 minutes on the subject and you'll see this lol. You can still choose to disbelieve what the Bible says, but if so, atleast disbelieve on the facts and not on the reasons you hear you shouldn't

Who are Scribes?



I wouldn't dare say they were uneducated lol, or that they didn't know what they were doing when it came to translating spoken to written language

Well,gee.I didnt say that I didnt believe it.I said that any book of history,including the Bible has to be read with careful consideration of the environment whence it came. Papyrus only became commonplace for recording purposes,about 100 AD,100 years after Christs death,and it was a closely held state secret (as u so graciously pointed out)by the Egyptians,who were not big fans of the Israelites.So what were the Hebrew scribes using in the interim?Clay tablets and stylii.Oh,by the way,I majored in Classical Languages and read and write both Greek and Latin so believe me I do study things pretty carefully before I speak and not for just 5 minutes either.Yes Wikipedia and the Web are our friends and so are our brains ,so be sure they are fully engaged before you put pen to paper,words in your (or others )mouth or fingers to keyboard.And one further does one of the three Amigo No-No's (Religion,sex and politics ) keep showing up on a Web site devoted to Mazda pickups? I am sure Mr. Mazda was a Buddist or Taoist so he sure didnt expect this.Lol.BJ

I just want to say thanks for posting that, or at least posting it with intent of relevance to reality. I'm having a shitty day and needed a laugh.

lol first off let me say I was not saying you didn't believe...I don't know what you do or don't believe. I was only saying that if "you" as in anyone, doesn't believe atleast do it for the right reasons

And sorry my humor about the google friend thing didn't come across.

How about the dead Sea Scrolls which date to before AD 100 and were mostly written on papyrus? The Nash papyrus dating back to 2nd century BC?

As for why are these religious topics on the Mazda website? As stated earlier in this thread...this is the Off Topic forum first off, so that leaves us free to talk politics, religion, sex, or w/e. For me, I had just come out of the topic about "What are your beliefs?" ...which I didn't start lol, and got the "Bible Facts" message from another forum...which is Christian...and thought, "Ya know, a lot people don't realize these things" so this is one of the places I frequent and have these type discussions with, so I thought I'd post it for those who might be interested...and apparently there's been quite a few people lol.


Now, back to your reply again , let's say they did write on clay, or who cares what. The bigger point is, if there were errors made, what kind of errors might make a whole lot of difference in how Scripture is read today? I mean, I don't think the "Biblical basics" would be affected.

Let's just stick with the NT here. I can agree that maybe the writers could have flubbed on say, how many people were actually fed by the 5 loaves and 2 fish. Or maybe what time of day it was, or how long they actually traveled, how many stones were thrown at them lol, etc. etc. But what kind of items might they have messed up on that would really, let's say, "shake the foundations"? And let us not forget how many of these same guys wrote about the same incidents such as, all 4 disciples, Paul, and you can also include some of the "gnostic" writers in there cuz they also wrote about some of the same things Christ did.

I'm guessing....big guess here ...this was in reply to me. Well, basically, let me just say, I'm sorry you're having a rough day. Even though I'm working 12 hours today lol, I'm having an awesome day, just like most others I'm blessed to enjoy

i meant my reply for the topic in general. though i do appreciate the open discussion of any subject in a forum, ive never been one to be able to understand religion and the cattholic (based) seems to be one of the most far fetched for me.

you know whats funny (and i dont mean to sound as EVERY christian/catholic would) but on the back window of my car i have a cross with a circle around it and a line through it.. its the only sticker on the car... when stopped at a red light i have had a woman GIVE ME THE FINGER AND YELL "FUCK YOU" AT ME! from her car... so because im 'different' im worse? do i not meet the standards set forth by an outdated fairy tale?

I hate it when people that act like she did. You know why? Because she's not living the example of what Christ gave us. How is her flipping you off doing a thing to help you out lol. The problem is, these are the people that "claim" to be Christians but yet know very little of the Bible and how we are to live, and in no way have "Christ-centered" attitude. Being here in the "Bible belt" we've got a lot of people that will get upset about the "non-Christian" things and claim to be Christian's themselves, yet never step foot in a church or even better yet, not even begin to live their life in sacrifice to Christ's will.

But, it's not a fairy tale first and foremost lol. I think I, in 2 threads recently now, have shown enought that proves Christ was a living being, and how He lived is not in dispute by most people of the world...however yes I know there are lots of things about Him such as His ressurection and Godship that are debated.

NONE of us meet the standards set forth by God though, hence the purpose of Christ sacrifice for us. We, I included most definitely, are all sinners and All fall short of the righteousness of God.