Slam Specialty(UPDATE: 7-21-08)

i will say this.. i too have the FBI four link..i got mine with the bushing ends.. wasnt a fan of hyms...with that said.. given the diameter of the bar it self.. i chose to bag mine bag over axle...but what i did do.. was mount my brackers on the front side of the axle.... so i would get more lift.. again.. i used slam specialties myself and im quite happy with the lift i get... i tuck hub... and lift to just untuck rubber in the rear...on a 16 inch rim right now

^If your bags are mounted directly to the axle, in any way, in from behind, on top, below, you still only get the lift of that stroke of the bag.

Hey seth, can you answer this question?

I was thinking as well if mounting the upper 4-link tabs to the front of the axle housing instead of on top would affect anything? More lift, pinion angle change, etc.?

If not, I just thought it might also help in a lower profile setup... I think though, that it would affect the pinion angle... What about even having both upper and lower tabs in the front of the axle housing?

EDIT: While I'm at it, I might as well ask you a few more questions, lol!

1. I want to Z my frame so I can hide everything under the bed, what type of metal would you suggest, Seth, for this application? As well, what do you do for guesseting it?

2. What can I do to lengthen the brake lines, or do I even have enough to not worry about the lines?

3. I'm relocating the tank, what about these lines? Can I get a barb adaptor and lengthen it or do I need completely new hosing for a run?

4. I'm thinking about what type of tubing to use for the fuel tank, and four link ends in the front. Do I need a crossmember in the front or can I leave it be since the back where tank is has that as basically a crossmember? What type of tubing and how thick? I'd like to pick it up today!

Man, it seems like all of your questions require a lengthy answer to properly explain.

Okay, 4-link tabs. Yes you can mount the upper pivot in front of the axle, but it should be close to the top of the radius of the axle tube. You don't have to move the lower tab out to match, because in general your lower link bars should be longer than the top bars from a side view. It won't affect your pinion angle change if you do it correctly. You need to keep the same spread between the link ends on the axle. So say with a traditional tab setup the distance between your upper and lower pivot is 10 inches. Now if you move the upper link mount down 3 inches that would make your spread 7 inches, which doesn't offer a lot of control for the axle. So your lower pivot needs to be moved down 3 inches to match. The shortening of the bar won't affect it so much as the spread. Now when doing this your welds need to be good, because you are putting more stress on the upper link by putting it in front of the axle, because it will try to pull away from the link end. And you are also creating a larger lever on the lower tabs which is where the majority of the force is applied.

1. You want to Z the back of the frame? Why, so its easy to mount the bed to it? IMO, just notch it, and build spacers for the bed mounts. It looks better, its less work, and stronger.

2. Why would you have to lengthen your brake lines? Are you doing a long bed conversion and moving the axle back? Or do you mean for travel? Usually, if you mount them right you can get plenty of travel from a stock line. If you are going for more than say 8 inches of lift, then you can run a flex line to a hard line attached to the link bar, and then a flex line to the axle. I've posted pictures of this a few times now.

3. Buy a roll of fuel line the correct size and replace it. Its only anyways.

4. I have no idea what the question is.

Also I was just reading about your 4-link plans. You shouldn't have an issue with the link bars bending with that gusset. The issue you will have is with the rod ends. They pivot freely, that is the beauty of their design. They will allow for articulation. But if you try to put an air bag on top of them, they will still pivot freely. Your bag is going to roll the bar over, and that will create a lot of problems.

nice kit.. is that a trilink or 4 link, i assume 4 link no? man i seen this kit on ebay FBSS with a trilink bars, c notch cut outs (complete kit) shipped for 909$ recently, dam is it tempting to charge the shi*, may get it when the income tax rebate check from the gov comes in

here it is..

^ That looks like a pretty low end kit. IMO your suspension is not the place to be cheap. If it fails, you will likely be stranded without an easy way to fix it.

Lol, lifetime warranty on the bags atleast...

Anyways, Seth, I appreciate you taking some time to help! lol, but it only brings on some more questions!

Wanna trade some bushing ends with zerk fittings for my heims?!

Last thing I want is to shear the side of the bag open from too much articulation...

As well, let me get to some replies on your answers to clarify. lol!

When I asked you about tubing, I was asking about what kind of square tubing to use so I can mount my fuel tank and a crossmember to make for my link ends for my 4-link, etc.

As well, whether or not I need another crossmember besides that or can I just leave it like that and use the fuel tank cradle and 4-link crossmember for enough x-members to support the frame. Basically, I'd prefer not to have any more crossmembers than I need to keep it more low profile.

Also, I remember seeing someone having to lengthen their lines, I just did'nt know it was under special circumstances.. And just in case, would a normal auto stor carry something to help lengthen the line?

As far as Z'ing the frame, or maybe what could also be called a notch, I'm mounting everything under the bed but I do not want to BD the truck. So I figure when I'm done with it all, the tank will probably stick out from under the truck. I'd rather have everything away from the eyes.

I was told if you Z the back you raise the rear rails and then you BD the bed so it lines up with the cab and you can keep everything from being seen? Now its just a matter of how much I would need to drop it to hide it all... Hmm...

As far as the link tabs mounted in the front of the axle, I figured by doing so it would help minimize pinion change and help a little more with the lift on a leverage setup?

But the more I read your response the more it sounds like something it should'nt be performed since it is more unnecessary,

Thanks for responding, and definitely helping a trucka' out and I look forward to hearing more input from you!

BTW, I found out today that 1" Square tubing is $1.39 by the foot and 2x1 1/2 tubing is $2.47 a foot! Cheap? Don't sound like it...

EDIT: Does anyone know how much longer the X-cab fuel tank is than the inside width of the frame rails? I can't get my hands on a STD cab. fuel tank... :\

No, I won't trade you bushings for those heims. IMO the heims FBI uses aren't worth anything. Sorry. I don't know where they are made, but I was impressed by the amount of slop in them when new. And also by how quickly they wear out.

1x1 will be fine to mount the tank with. I pay about $.85 a foot for 1x1 .120 wall. 1x2 runs about a $1.20 a foot.

As for a 4-link cross member, I like 2x3. Its plenty stout in all directions. And if is has a "notch" to clear the drive shaft then it will still be strong enough in both directions. I would use .120 or .188 wall. A 20 foot stick is around $90. As far as how many cross members, I like to have one behind the cab, at least one on the notch, and one at the very rear of the frame. One between the notch and rear is good but not necessary.

The brake lines. If you need a longer flex line, you will have to buy a custom line, or find something from a different stock vehicle that will work. Don't try to mix Standard and Metric fittings and lines, unless you want to flare different ends to make it work.

What you are talking about is Zing the back half. I've seen this done, and I really don't like it. Sure, you don't have to build spacers for the bed, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Its more work to Z it and keep it straight. You may as well just back half the truck at that point. I still think you would be better off notching the truck and building spacers. This will also allow for more protection for your gas and air tanks. They won't just be dangling below the frame. You can notch a truck and raise the bed floor just the same, Marcus has some good picture sin his project thread of his.

The link tabs, its not unnecessary. If you want a low profile setup it will help. You just have to make sure you are still setting the geometry up correctly when doing this, because it will change your Instant Center location and raise it up a bit. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you don't want to make it too high. This is just something you need to consider when building your setup. Another thing to think about, would your bag mounts or shocks be higher than the tabs? What about the notch and the differential? If so, the bed has to be above those anyways.

Also when you are making your 4-link mounts, and attaching your cross members to the frame don't forget to plate a good portion of the frame in the area first. Import truck frames are thin on the inside wall, and they tear very easily.

Lol, I understand, dangit, not even if I gave you $80 and the heims, huh?

I don't feel any slop in them, but I sure have no idea how long they'll last!

With the articulation the joints give, how big of a problem is this going to be with the bags on bars? I'm having a bit more of a problem understanding how it affects the setup too because why would it matter? My thinking on this is that even witha bag on axle setup, if the truck were to articulate like bag on bar, would'nt it correlate to the same amount of stress on the bag?

I remember the steel guy saying it was 1/8" thick... And now that I think of it, I will need another crossmember so I can mount my shocks as well. I guess I have no choice though, I dunno anyone else who sells steel!

Okay, Seth, please elaborate on notching the frame and using spacers. I'd like to hear another idea!

What thickness metal are you using to plate the frame? I think I got enough metal to do that, would just have to double it up, lol..

EDIT: BTW, if you don't want to still consider that deal for the heims and money, would you be willing to make me some link ends or hook me up? I would like a quote!