This post MUST be read the Big 3 are in crisis and they need your help Take action!!!

So these employees work for X number of years. They collect a very nice pension. Next said generation works, collects nice pension. The cost to each vehicle to pay said pension rises year over year. Add in decline in the stock markets, rise in cost to fund said pension, you now have a unsustainable model.
Lets now look at GM books. They lost I believe $60BILLION this last quarter (4 months). Figure someone offers you $25BILLION with strings to produce more fuel efficient vehicles. When you bleed what they did last quarter how can $25 billion even make a dent in a balance sheet?
Now factor in a bankruptcy, companies line up financing so when they enter bankruptcy they have funds to operate while they reorganize. The capital markets are frozen for anyone but stellar companies. A company that has lost so much is not stellar, they will not get money to see them thru bankruptcy so they will go under, assets sold off and die. Ask what that means to its employees and suppliers and make your own decisions.
It is a hard decision to make and I hope the right one is made, good luck.

Edited: 11/17/2008 2:18:17 AM by Flossin22s

78 an hour!!!!????....auto worker as in line production or engineer

i think we are all missing the bigger picture here. say you do bail out the car companies. then what?
i was speaking to my gm parts dept of a very big dealership. he tells me that they went from selling over 100 cars a week to just clearing double digits. so we bail out gm, production goes as usual and then they cant sell any cars because theyre no longer leasing and no one can afford to buy them. so what do they do? lay off employess because production slowed down anyway. so who's a$$ did we save? not the poor slob that puts the car together.
i say make all the executives, ceo's etc fund the "fix" first. you'll see how eager they will be to correct their mistakes when its their money theyre playing with. i manage a decent sized body shop(23 employees) when we have a slow week everyone gets paid first before my boss gets a dime. what good is paying the person in charge if he doesnt produce for us(extreme example, obviously my boss doesnt control how many cars get wrecked a week, but he makes sure that the business stays afloat first, then worries about himself. should be the same way with the big 3 .

Edited: 11/17/2008 7:54:41 AM by bikemike20

?

The thing that I do not understand is that you see Ford and GM saying that they are going under, like Jim said its strange to believe this when they have so many vehicles that are selling around the world. For example did you know that both Ford and GM cars that they sell over in Europe out sell most of the domestic and other imported cars there? How can a company that is making millions of dollars in one part of the globe say that they are not making any money.

We in Canada have more stringent laws for importing new vehicles then everyone in the states, as far as bumper laws headlights etc... but what would it take for that stuff to be upgraded and have some of those vehicles that get 32mpg or better in city sold in North America. Probably not a lot. It is the lack of foresite on the behalf of both Ford AND GM that has got them into this situation...thinking that everyone in NA is going to drive F150s and Suburbans everyday. The whole time while they should have been offering us an entire product mix.

Say what you want about bailing out people with poor spending habits. I say everyone wanted a free market economy...you have it...if you are too dumb and have spent more then you make...well thats your fault...loose everything and start from go again. I know that I dont want my fuckin tax dollars bailing out idiots, who cant seem to do simple math. Same goes for Ford and GM.....if we bail you out...with our tax dollars does that mean that when you start turning a profit you are going to repay the money..so I wont have to pay imcome tax for a few years? probably not....how about a free car then? again no...so wha tdo I get out of this deal?

Originally posted by smithchassis



daimler doesnt own chrysler anymore, i dont care if you support gm or ford or not... but if you dont want to be out standing on the corner looking for food or water then you gotta help in some way even if it helps a little bit it still helps. what people dont realize is if this economy doesnt change and change fast, its 1929 alll over again but this time its alot worse because of teh population of the country

good. weed out the bullshit, let the responsible companies prosper, and rebuild the economy from the roots up... instead of trying to patch up the problem. soup kitchens and manual labor is what the United States needs; to help people pull their heads out of their asses and get back to the fundamentals of business and life in general.

i hope it happens. i hope the bottom falls out of the economy and wall street is reduced to a dirt road trading post, figuratively speaking.

Edited: 11/17/2008 11:18:05 AM by LowGreenChevy

I say kill all the kittens... If we kill all the kittens then cat food companies wont have to deliver cat food all over the world, thus reducing the fuel they use, thus reducing the dependency on oil...

Originally posted by smithchassis

they gave us a colorado for a dollar and got us on the cover of mini truckin magazine so this is the least i could do



I will do something when they sell me a colorado for a dollar.

I have read most all of whats typed and there are some good and some really stupid points made on both sides. What all of you are failing to realise is the actual impact on your day to day life. If we lost even one of the companies in crisis the world impact would be huge. I am canadian 40% of my provinces ecconomy is grain 30 is oil 20 is manufacturing to wich a large amount is parts for the big three and oil field supplies. The idea of a big red reset button is great if it was realistic there are no funds or others to step into place to continue.This time around Gm is actually looking at packing it in. The 5 biggest Gm stores in north america went bankrupt last year due to a loss in stock values in gm shares. Sine they could no longer bowrrow against that value. With the loss of available funds from lines of credit and what not. The ecconomic issues of north america are just starting to show and the next 4 years will be interesting at minimum. I think the whole world will get alot worse before it gets better. I also think loseing one of north americas larges and oldest companies is a tragedy. So go drive your toyota or your kia. Just remeber to tell your grandchildren how you probly could have helped save america but you didnt see the need.

as a after thought if you could lose simply the auto manufacturer alone the recoil wouldnt be so bad but as stated by many others its the supplier companys that will crumble and on and on that will be the big downfall.

losing GM would be the end of the world's economy? are you reading what you type? save GM and save America? LMFAO you can't be serious.

you tell your grandkids how i destroyed America, while i teach my folks how to get by in bad times.

there is no relation to the survival of a large company and the survival of America. Period.