whats everyones beliefs?

But the difference between our God, Christ, and their mythical gods, is that ours was actualy here on earth. He walked and taught personally, and however He also gave physical proof to the God of the Old Testament by His own words.

Care to also explain how books, over 600-1000+ years before the coming of Christ, prophesied perfectly how He would come, how He would die, and how He would rise again?

I don't know... self-realizing prophecy ??

Wait a minute... how can you say "our God and their mythical gods"? Isn't that a little arrogant? There are many cultures out there that would call your God the mythical one...

Muslims, just as an example, believe Jesus to be just one of the prophets. They believe Allah is the true God. How do you reconcile that point of view?

Also, if you believe the Bible to be true, which I obviously don't, it says it was Christ who walked the earth, not God himself. Also, just because some guy with long hair and a beard says some God exists, it doesn't necessarily mean I have to drop everything and worship it/she/he.

What I am trying to say is this, words alone cannot convince me that God exists. It takes a certain amount of faith, which I lack. This does not make me better or worse than anyone else. I am a contributing member of society, I give blood on a regular basis, I give money to United Way, I help the elderly, I love my children, I love my spouse, I forgave my ex-wife for cheating on me and forcing us into divorce and I don't believe in the supernatural or the mythical, which includes religion.

No amount of quoting the Bible or telling me God exists and loves me will make any bit of difference. To me it's just noise. In my books God does not exist, all religions are a sham and Christ was some hippy-type guy who got caught up in events bigger than him and got crucified for it.

Here endeth the rant.

Possible I suppose, but why do those who decided to follow Him not dispute it?

And if it was self realizing, then wouldn't He still sin? That's the bigger thing as to His testimony...not from Himself but from those around Him...including His enemies. (other than blasphemy and "healing on the Sabbath" ...the only "sins" they accused Him of).

Side note:

Let's not forget also, it was because of Blasphemy that the Jews really wanted Him crucified. Because He 1. Claimed to be the Son of God, 2. Claimed to be equal with God, 3. Claimed to be with God in the beginning (before Abraham, I AM), 4. Created commandments and forgave sin, which was sposed to be only an attribute of God.

lol Lalunette, I'm in no way trying to convince you of God...you say you've made your choice already. All I'm doing is answering yours and others questions, or refuting comments made by those participating in this conversation.

Which btw, I replied before your last post so let me address those things you brought up


For your first point:

There is actual proof, outside the Bible as well, as to the life of Christ. As to if He was God or not, I think the proof speaks for itself. It's the whole reason He was crucified by the Jews....for blasphemy. (as stated above before you even brought it up lol...how's that for God inspired )

I don't need to reconcile th point of view by Muslims anymore than I do the Jews that don't accept Him as the MEssiah they are still waiting for. Some will believe and some won't. If you'll dig deeper into the faith of the Muslim and compare to the Christian faith I think the Truth will speak for itself. Everyone is welcome to believe what they want, it's not my job to prove one or the other right or wrong, I let the evidence speak for itself.

For me it's not arrogance, it's confidence in my Faith and my God. Now, I didn't say Allah is a myth, nor did I say Muhammed was either...(we know Muhammed lived just like we know Christ did ) We also know Joseph Smith, the Mormon founder lived, does that mean we believe he is right when all the evidence so far shows he was wrong? Nope.



Congrats. I ended up staying with mine, only through the grace of God though lol. Been 10 years since now.


Btw you can name all the "good" works ya want, but how much "good" does it take when we're sposed to be measuring our selves against a Perfect example?

I'm not trying to show off or show how good I am, I'm just saying that you don't have to "have religion" to be a good citizen.
There are plenty of people who believe in one religion or another who do some pretty evil things (suicide bombers for example). I guess they choose to disregard this "Perfect example" of yours.
I'm a non-believer who thinks the Christian principles enumerated in the decalogue (or ten commandments) and that have nothing to do with religion should be followed in a secular world.
They are:
1. "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."
2. "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
3. "Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."
4. "Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"
5. "Honor your father and your mother..."
6. "Do not murder"
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
10. "Do not covet your neighbor's house"

Commandments 1 through 3 I can do without.

Commandment 4 can be interpreted as a day of R&R, which everyone can use right?

I’m okay with Commandments 5 through 10 ‘cause they just make sense. Any member of society, religious or not, should adhere to these last ones.

I really wasn't trying to say you were, it was just a comment to those who do say "I'm good enough". Because how good we are depends on what we're measuring our goodness against. And if one is trying to get into Heaven, then whom are your works going to be measured against?

You can definitely be a good citizen w/o religion I know, though it is interwoven into most societies.

We all have the moral Law written on hearts...even God says so lol

Jeremiah 31:33 (also repeated by Paul in Hebrews 10)
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

WOW! This thread is HOT!

I'll make just one post, and be on my way...

Anyone can be a good person. The difference between being a good person, and being saved are two diff. things.

If you are not saved, (accept Jesus as your saviour) then you will not be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Even still, a good person would not inherit the kingdom of God, simply because they did'nt believe in Jesus as their Lord!

Yep, I can't recall the scripture, but maybe if hotdawg want's to help, there is some versus that talks about people working in the field, one will be taken, the other won't!

And there you have my biggest bone of contention with religion... the promise of paradise after we die... the ultimate carrot.

I don't have enough words to express the level of frustration I feel whenever someone mentions paradise, limbo, purgatory and hell. To me this is the ultimate trick played on the human race by religion.

Be good, don't complain, accept your lot, etc. because after you die, if you're lucky, you get to go to heaven. If you're not nice you go to hell. If you're not good enough you go to purgatory, where you might eventually make it into heaven and, if you don't baptize your child fast enough and it dies, it goes to limbo, because of original sin. Anyone have any proof any of this exists... other than what is written in the Bible and the reams of doctrine the catholic church has written since?

No, there is no proof, nada, zip, zero.

I know the answer I'm going to get is, yes, all this exists because God said it exists. To me that's like the tobaccco companies saying cigarettes are good for you because it's written in a book, a book they wrote BTW.

Sorry, I'm getting a little frustrated...

Let me blow off some steam, do some work, and get back to this thread later on today or tomorrow.

Cheers !!