whats everyones beliefs?

wow this is quite the thread already! My family (mom's side) attends a christian church on the regular. my dad's side doesn't. growing up i went from time to time with my mom and grama and grampa and aunts and cousins etc. but then we moved a couple hours away when i was in like 5th grade and i only went to church when we visited them on easter and christmas. there hasn't been enough proof for me to believe. i'd like to believe, but like i said not enough proof.
i had a friend that said 'religion is like a crutch for the weak' - and i always liked that saying... thought it was funny.
i don't feel like a bad person though..
My mother in law's family was super catholic and my wife was kinda sorta raised catholic - like how i was rasied kinda christian... and we both agree that church is a waste of time, and going to a building and listening to someone talk about an idea isn't going to save us. what happens happens, and that's that..
i really hate to say it, and don't believe it or say it was right, but referring back to the Hitler comment and the arian race being supreme... it could totally be the same way as the bible. if someone wrote a great story about how jewish people were so terrible and white blonde haired people were supreme, and that story got enough publicity and enough people read it and thought the same thing, it could be the next bible. i know it won't happen but what if someone back in the day... like 2000 years ago wrote a story that was completely different, how would that change things?
what if there were 2 copies of the Bible- one that is published and loved today, and one that was completely different, less creative and depicted different things happening... and someone accidently sent the wrong copy to print,so to say, and since it was such a good story with so many miracles that nobody can repeat, it was an attention getter so they ran it. now everyone believes this "creation" instead of the truth.
i'm not saying that's what happened, but what if...? kinda like in the movie "man of the year" with Robin Williams where he becomes president - the poll were you cast your vote was a computer and it had a glitch so he won... someone knew, but it was such a big deal there'd be hell to pay if it showed up and people found out... it could have been that way with this bible.
What if jesus was nothing more than a great street magician? he turned water into wine for money as an act, and played if off as a great accomplishment and was just really good?
so years before jesus came someone predicted what would happen - when or how he'd be born and would die, and rise again... something like that... what if that was a guess? it's a safe bet something crazy will happen, over 3000 years there'll be a lot of people born and living, so it's bound to happen...
i'm rather ignorant to the bible and teachings of god and such, so if my scrawlings here on this post seem a bit off then i'm sorry, i just don't know better, but i feel like i got the jist of it, but there's my questions...

It does'nt matter... Lol, thats like saying if I don't see a paper stating what the law is, I did'nt break it! Nor, did I imply anything about you caring about my comments! You simply read it yourself with your free will and are now responsible for yourself. God hols us accountable, especially when you are aware of something you did...

Another thing, speedster the, "what if?" is understandable. But not plausible... When you consider the what if idea, then you throw what my beliefs are out the window.

Which is:
What ever happens, is meant to happen! What happens is done, to fullfil Gods prophecies, and give him his glory... Sure you can sway the Lords heart, but in turn, that was supposed to happen! He can see EVERYTHING, and that means time as well! We are stuck in this moment and cannot percieve anything, but now! He knows what things we will do in the future, and he knows whats in our hearts!

When you want something, he knew you did before you thought about it! Only reason why you are there crying for him, is because he want's to know you love him...

I'm getting a little deep, lol. I think I'll quit! I need to eat my spaghetti!

Exactly what i was getting at. what if something else happened and you or I don't know about it, your worshiping a fraudulent idea... a crutch.
no offense, and i'm not calling you or anyone out, but its still that 'what if' idea that leads me to not believing. there's no proof.
The proof is in the puddin'

If God see's it that your destiny is to be in the book of life, your eyes will be opened someday! I hope they will!

I have had my pudding, and had enough of it to know the pudding taste good!

when it comes to religion i find that people just get way to caught up in what they believe that they become almost stuborn and straight minded. Just about every war that has ever happened is in one way or another is related to differences in religion, ie germans and jews, countless wars in the middle east over holy land. I like the idea that religion preaches people to live a better life and to treat people equally but in my opinion religion has caused more harm then good. And one weird question that i have always had is if god created man than who created god? i mean he must have come from somewhere....lol

Why does the Creator need a creator first off? He's infinite, the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and End. You're looking at it from a human stand point Matteo, and tbh it's something we just can't comprehend.

Speedster:

First off let me say, the "Bible=crutch" comment is just an easy saying for those who feel they're better off alone than with believing in a god. I in no way have my faith as a crutch. It implies I am weak so I believe in something bigger than me. It implies that I have to have a belief in something other than myself...like I "need" to believe in something outside myself. I can tell you personally I in no way, no way at all, feel that way.

As for your hypothesis: The Bible's books have been studied and studied, by many secularists and Biblical scholars for thousands of years now. Trust me if there was something else not right about it, or another "Bible as you say", I think they'd know by now.

You seem to be coming at it like as if one person wrote the Book. As I said above, it's written by over 40 authors, spanning atleast 3 continents and covers something like 6000 years or so. These people didn't "Get together" and make up the stories contained in it. All 4 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), were all found in far different areas. Yet they all speak of christ the same way and testify to the things He did.

As for the "magician" part. Once again, if Christ were just a magician, He wouldn't have been perfect as ALL the Gospel writers agree He was. You have to realize, the 4 Gospels werw written by those who walked, talked, and lived with Jesus 24/7 for 3 years straight. If He would have sinned in anyway, they would have known it.

"So they could have just wanted Him to sound better than He was so they wrote their books that way". Well first off, I don't think all 4 would have agreed to write such, and even the Gospels of the other disciples that have been found pretty much say the same thing...or atleast not one of them says He was sinful, or His carachter was different form the 4 Gospels in the Bible.

Also, these same disciples had their own moments of "unbelief or not being sure" or just plain being scared to stand up for Christ. 2 points here. 1. When Jesus was arrested in Gethsemane, the Bible says all the disciples fled...or hid and followed. Peter was the only one to draw a sword to fight. Yet point #2, Peter, once Christ was being taken to the Sanhedrin, denied time and time again outside that he was a disciple or that he even knew Christ when asked. It wasn't until after the ressurection of Christ and the disciple's witness of Him afterwards that they all became bold enough to preach Christ to the nations.

So, other than them actually seeing the "proof" of Christ's ressurection, they themselves were doubters or atleast fearful to take a stand. So if these men were so scared to stand up for Christ while He was alive, what else made the difference for them to all of a sudden stand up and help spread the "lie" (as some claim) about Him being God, and being sinless? If they were so scared to being with, why would they all of a sudden not be scared?

Look at Paul. He was imprisoned, beaten to the verge of death, multiple times. What in the world would have made any man do this for the sake of a lie?

Now as for the prophesying of Christ and how was going to be born. You'd have a point in your question if it were prophesied by only one person. But here's the deal, through out the whole Old Testament, there are many different prophecies from many of the diffferent writers. lol the Adam and Eve story itself prophesies to the coming of Christ:

Genesis 3:15
ANd I will put emnity between you (the serpant/satan) and the woman and between your seed and her Seed (Christ): He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise His heel." NKJV

Isaihah, Jeremiah, Daniel, and a number of the other OT writers prophecied to the Christ coming. Like I said above, this is still believed by the JEws to this day! They know their Bible says a Messiah will come. They know He'll be of the line of the great king David. The problem is though, they're looking for an earthly king, where as Christ is the Heavenly King. He fits all the prophecies, but since He didn't bring a political solution to the earth's problems...Isreal's more specifically, they don't see Him as the Savior. So they wait.



Ok gotta go eat some breakfast now and get my coffee


Oh yeah, and it's not been the Christian religion causing wars, it's been the followers not "following" as they should Did Christ cause any wars? Nope, He even told Peter not to defend Him with the sword the night they arrested Him, and instead He healed the dude that Peter hit. So is this an example of a war causing religion? Not if we follow Christ!

"if I don't see a paper stating what the law is, I did'nt break it" - No fair, you are comparing apples and oranges.

I have stated previously in this thread that I only recognize authority when it has been voted or enacted through a democratic process, i.e. voted in by men and women I can see, hear, feel, etc.

I respect the laws of my country, my city, etc., even though I sometimes think some of them are ridiculous. I do this for the god of my community. As a moral person I also follow what some would recognize as being part of the 10 commandments (thou shalt not kill, lie, steal, etc.) but I consider these to be "non-religious" as they are common-sense principles that apply to life in a modern society.

However, why should I recognize “lawsâ€

According to non-believers, God is the invention of Man.

Man needed a God (God, Vishnu, Thor, Marduk, etc... take your pick) to help explain his world, his origins because he did not yet have the scientific knowledge to explain the world around him.

Some humans still need a god to help them cope with life, and that's okay, as long as they don't try to impose their views on us non-believers.

Richard I fully agree on the debating with non-believers and believers being very enjoyable. Heck I love it lol. I try not to "impose" my views on anyone...you don't have to believe me lol. I do however want to dispell rumors/myths that the secular society has placed on my faith, so I will make my arguments based on that....and it's not really to even convince the one I'm arguing with, it's more so that ALL people who read it may better understand my faith, and the truthes within it.



The first comment is true...


The second and third I have to disagree with...from MY own stand point lol. I don't see how I benefit from being a believer. I didn't become one because I felt I needed to...in a worldy sense. I felt a calling to come to God, not a need...though being a believer I see my Spiritual need for Him.

For me, if I sit and think about it, I don't have a pesonal "matter" in, if I was created or evolved. I just simply can't accept evolution...on the basis w/o a Creator. It's probably of the same way you can accept a Creator...so I guess you can understand my side lol. I don't "need" to believe in a Creator for any beneficial reason. Like Speedster said above, "the proof is in the pudding". I see and feel the proof.

For me I see science as finding the fingerprints of God, not proving God isn't there. I accept science fully, I know they make hypothetical theories every day...it's what we all do to some degree. I don't know of anything science can discover that will make me not believe in God....including other life forms on other planets lol.

life on other planets,,, did god create life on other planets? did he create the other planets? did he create the sun, stars and space? what about the other stars that are millions of LIGHT years away? why'd he make them so far away so that we can't see them if we don't have a high power telescope?
how do you explain 'natural disasters' if god controls everything and everything happens for a reason? to wipe out the unholy or non believers or sinners? why doesn't he just strike them dead, instead of say a flood destroying everything, including their belongings and animals too? i'm sure the animals don't sin.