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Mazda Lowering Static \ help with my 4 link??help with my 4 link??
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replies 84
following 13
low87dawg
+1y
and i dont think i can do a forward reverse fourlink cause my blazer gas tank im putting in
notjo
+1y
Baha, those pics do help describe suspension very well to noobs like me. This is the best suspension thread i've read so far for helping me out.
Next can we do a big thread with pics to help me understand how to bag the front?
and can ANYONE describe and get me pics of this "parallel 4link w/ panhard or watts" setup?
I've been asking questions about it and people keep talking about it and saying how it's the nicest/and/or best setup etc... but i have no idea what anyone is talking about.
Next can we do a big thread with pics to help me understand how to bag the front?
and can ANYONE describe and get me pics of this "parallel 4link w/ panhard or watts" setup?
I've been asking questions about it and people keep talking about it and saying how it's the nicest/and/or best setup etc... but i have no idea what anyone is talking about.
low87dawg
+1y
yea they do but neone know much bout the blazer gas tank can i fit it undrneath my truck without cutting out the bed floor?
mullet
+1y
kind of a hard pic to see by.. but this is Mike White's mazda from Barn Yard Customs.. he also sells a full watts link kit. Me personally.. i plan on running a KP components parallel 4 link w/ a BYC watts link.
kind of a hard pic to see by.. but this is Mike White's mazda from Barn Yard Customs.. he also sells a full watts link kit. Me personally.. i plan on running a KP components parallel 4 link w/ a BYC watts link.
mullet
+1y
OK.. this was a post on SSM from "AR" who is in Amarrillo TX.. DISCLAIMER I DID NOT WRITE THIS.. JUST SHARING WITH THE GROUP BECUASE IT EFFECTS US TOO!
----------- he wrote --------------
Both styles of 4 link accomplish the same thing... very simply, they hold the rear axle in the vehicle. The function of a 4 link is to keep the rear axle in its proper place under the vehicle. The bottom 2 links keep the axle in place front to back. The upper 2 links keep the axle from rotating, keeping the pinion angle as constant as possible.
On a triangulated 4 link the uppers bars are placed at an angle to the lowers. When connected securely to the axle and the frame they form a "triangle". This is what keeps the rear axle centered under the vehicle.
On a parallel style, a "panhard bar" must be used. It runs horizontally across the vehicle connecting the axle to the frame, allowing only up and down movement. Although there are several theories as to which is "better", in the real world it comes down to available space and preference.
A parallel 4 link fits most trucks better because the fuel tank is usually right in front of the axle, inboard of the frame. A parallel is sometimes easier to install because the link bar frame mount is one piece instead of two... less time in placing and welding the upper bar mounts. But a parallel 4 link requires a panhard bar which adds slightly to the expense and can use up valuable space needed for the exhaust system. A panhard bar will also induce a small amount of side to side movement during suspension travel... not enough to feel but it may concern the customer who has an extremely tight tire to fender clearance. With a parallel 4 link you are locked into a sideframe link position... with a triangulated 4 link the lower links can be placed beside the frame or under the frame for clearance purposes.
Either system is very straightforward to install. You will spend more time with the tape measure than the saw or welder. All else being equal, for the absolute rookie, the parallel may be a bit easier to visualize and understand during installation.
Triangulated 4 link (vs. parallel 4 link)
PROS CONS
No side to side movement at all... you can run tighter tire to fender clearance
Less hardware to buy and install (no panhard bar)
Allows flexibility in bar placement to avoid obstacles
Angled upper bars can interfere with exhaust
Angled upper bars can interfere with fuel tank on late model trucks
4 more attachment points to plot and install (parallel has bar mounts built together)
Parallel 4 link (vs. triangulated 4 link)
PROS CONS
Slightly easier to visualize and install (bar mounts are built together)
Can be installed beside framerail, inboard or outboard
May allow more room for exhaust (no angled upper bars)
Requires a panhard bar (extra cost and installation)
Panhard bar will induce a slight amount of side to side movement during suspension travel... requires slightly more tire to fender clearance
Panhard bar may interfere with exhaust
Why should I put a 4 link under my car?
What will a 4 link do better than a leafspring?
In a leafspring suspension, the leafs perform 2 functions. First, they hold the rear axle in the car. They prevent both forward and aft movement and minimize pinion angle change during suspension travel. Secondly, while they are doing this, they also support the load of the vehicle. For an OEM vehicle that has had thousands of hours of development time behind it, and that will operate within a predictable range of suspension travel, leafsprings do a very adequate job. The problem occurs when the operating envelope is changed... lower ride height, more horsepower, different weight distribution, maybe a trailer... it's called hotrodding! The leafsprings cannot be expected to perform as intended if the operating parameters are changed.
With a 4 link suspension, we have separated the function of locating the rear axle and supporting the vehicle, just as GM has done since 1958. We like the 4 link rear suspension because of its ability to properly locate the rear axle no matter how soft we want to make the spring. With a leafspring rear suspension, softening the spring rate can cause other problems such as side to side flex or axle wrap (when the axle tries to twist the leafs out of the vehicle).
Just a few FAQs...
I have a straight axle under my '32 and am happy with the ride height and quality. Can I use an air suspension on the rear only?
ABSOLUTELY! We have several customers who have installed a 4 link and airsprings or ShockWavesâ„¢ under the rear of their vehicles to improve ride quality. The rear of the vehicle is where you will actually see the most ride quality improvement. This is because you sit closer to the rear end and any load changes (fuel, passengers, luggage, trailer) will be supported by the rear suspension. For those customers who are looking for ride quality... start with the rear end.
In setting up my rear 4 link air suspension, should I place the airsprings in front or behind the axle? Inboard or outboard of the framerail?
It really comes down to where there is the most room. A forward position will offer slightly more travel and can sometimes offer better ride quality. A rear position can offer slightly more load capacity. Any spring, coil, leaf or air will perform better if placed farther apart under the shassis. Keep in mind these performance differences are quite small and that the real criteria should be available space in your particular vehicle.
At what angle should I place the 4 link bars? The panhard bar? How critical are the angles?
We typically try to place the lower bars level at ride height. This will minimize "roll steer" (slight wheelbase change caused by the arc of the bars going through their travel). The upper bars should also be level, or slightly down at the front if need be. This configuration will provide stable handling and braking characteristics. It is important to get the bars exactly the same from side to side to avoid unpredictable handling problems. It is also extremely important to make sure the panhard bar is level at your highway ride height. This will minimize side travel of the rear axle induced by the arc of the panhard bar going through its travel. Obviously there are precise formulas for placement of the 4 link bars to maximize certain performance criteria, but these performance differences are quite small on a road car. Put the bars in level, or close to it, at ride height, and you'll be fine.
What about "reverse" 4 links? What happens when you run the bars backwards?
NO NO NO!!! By the way, did we say NO?! It doesn't matter what the truck magazines say... DO NOT run the 4 link bars backwards! Here's what happens... When the top bars are run backwards, the diverging arcs of the upper and lower bars will create such a massive pinion angle change that under extreme amounts of suspension travel, you may actually pull the driveshaft out of the transmission! If you want to see this effect for yourself, get a sheet of pegboard and a couple of yardsticks... simulate the scenario for yourself. The second effect of running the upper bars backwards is completely screwed up handling dynamics. With a normal 4 link, when you hit the brakes, the suspension geometry wants to lift the rear of the vehicle... therefore trying to "plant" the rear tires and assisting the braking action. When the upper bars are reversed, this dynamic is eliminated or even reversed... when you hit the brakes the suspension actually unloads the tires thereby massively reducing available braking performance. This is not our opinion... it is simply physics.
We don't know who thought up this "backwards" 4 link stuff but apparently it was originally used to provide clearance for an airspring sitting on top of the lower bars that pointed to the front. The truck magazines picked it up, the readers took it as gospel, and the rest is history.
---------------- PICS HE INCLUDED----------
ONCE AGAIN I DID NOT WRITE THIS!!
----------- he wrote --------------
Both styles of 4 link accomplish the same thing... very simply, they hold the rear axle in the vehicle. The function of a 4 link is to keep the rear axle in its proper place under the vehicle. The bottom 2 links keep the axle in place front to back. The upper 2 links keep the axle from rotating, keeping the pinion angle as constant as possible.
On a triangulated 4 link the uppers bars are placed at an angle to the lowers. When connected securely to the axle and the frame they form a "triangle". This is what keeps the rear axle centered under the vehicle.
On a parallel style, a "panhard bar" must be used. It runs horizontally across the vehicle connecting the axle to the frame, allowing only up and down movement. Although there are several theories as to which is "better", in the real world it comes down to available space and preference.
A parallel 4 link fits most trucks better because the fuel tank is usually right in front of the axle, inboard of the frame. A parallel is sometimes easier to install because the link bar frame mount is one piece instead of two... less time in placing and welding the upper bar mounts. But a parallel 4 link requires a panhard bar which adds slightly to the expense and can use up valuable space needed for the exhaust system. A panhard bar will also induce a small amount of side to side movement during suspension travel... not enough to feel but it may concern the customer who has an extremely tight tire to fender clearance. With a parallel 4 link you are locked into a sideframe link position... with a triangulated 4 link the lower links can be placed beside the frame or under the frame for clearance purposes.
Either system is very straightforward to install. You will spend more time with the tape measure than the saw or welder. All else being equal, for the absolute rookie, the parallel may be a bit easier to visualize and understand during installation.
Triangulated 4 link (vs. parallel 4 link)
PROS CONS
No side to side movement at all... you can run tighter tire to fender clearance
Less hardware to buy and install (no panhard bar)
Allows flexibility in bar placement to avoid obstacles
Angled upper bars can interfere with exhaust
Angled upper bars can interfere with fuel tank on late model trucks
4 more attachment points to plot and install (parallel has bar mounts built together)
Parallel 4 link (vs. triangulated 4 link)
PROS CONS
Slightly easier to visualize and install (bar mounts are built together)
Can be installed beside framerail, inboard or outboard
May allow more room for exhaust (no angled upper bars)
Requires a panhard bar (extra cost and installation)
Panhard bar will induce a slight amount of side to side movement during suspension travel... requires slightly more tire to fender clearance
Panhard bar may interfere with exhaust
Why should I put a 4 link under my car?
What will a 4 link do better than a leafspring?
In a leafspring suspension, the leafs perform 2 functions. First, they hold the rear axle in the car. They prevent both forward and aft movement and minimize pinion angle change during suspension travel. Secondly, while they are doing this, they also support the load of the vehicle. For an OEM vehicle that has had thousands of hours of development time behind it, and that will operate within a predictable range of suspension travel, leafsprings do a very adequate job. The problem occurs when the operating envelope is changed... lower ride height, more horsepower, different weight distribution, maybe a trailer... it's called hotrodding! The leafsprings cannot be expected to perform as intended if the operating parameters are changed.
With a 4 link suspension, we have separated the function of locating the rear axle and supporting the vehicle, just as GM has done since 1958. We like the 4 link rear suspension because of its ability to properly locate the rear axle no matter how soft we want to make the spring. With a leafspring rear suspension, softening the spring rate can cause other problems such as side to side flex or axle wrap (when the axle tries to twist the leafs out of the vehicle).
Just a few FAQs...
I have a straight axle under my '32 and am happy with the ride height and quality. Can I use an air suspension on the rear only?
ABSOLUTELY! We have several customers who have installed a 4 link and airsprings or ShockWavesâ„¢ under the rear of their vehicles to improve ride quality. The rear of the vehicle is where you will actually see the most ride quality improvement. This is because you sit closer to the rear end and any load changes (fuel, passengers, luggage, trailer) will be supported by the rear suspension. For those customers who are looking for ride quality... start with the rear end.
In setting up my rear 4 link air suspension, should I place the airsprings in front or behind the axle? Inboard or outboard of the framerail?
It really comes down to where there is the most room. A forward position will offer slightly more travel and can sometimes offer better ride quality. A rear position can offer slightly more load capacity. Any spring, coil, leaf or air will perform better if placed farther apart under the shassis. Keep in mind these performance differences are quite small and that the real criteria should be available space in your particular vehicle.
At what angle should I place the 4 link bars? The panhard bar? How critical are the angles?
We typically try to place the lower bars level at ride height. This will minimize "roll steer" (slight wheelbase change caused by the arc of the bars going through their travel). The upper bars should also be level, or slightly down at the front if need be. This configuration will provide stable handling and braking characteristics. It is important to get the bars exactly the same from side to side to avoid unpredictable handling problems. It is also extremely important to make sure the panhard bar is level at your highway ride height. This will minimize side travel of the rear axle induced by the arc of the panhard bar going through its travel. Obviously there are precise formulas for placement of the 4 link bars to maximize certain performance criteria, but these performance differences are quite small on a road car. Put the bars in level, or close to it, at ride height, and you'll be fine.
What about "reverse" 4 links? What happens when you run the bars backwards?
NO NO NO!!! By the way, did we say NO?! It doesn't matter what the truck magazines say... DO NOT run the 4 link bars backwards! Here's what happens... When the top bars are run backwards, the diverging arcs of the upper and lower bars will create such a massive pinion angle change that under extreme amounts of suspension travel, you may actually pull the driveshaft out of the transmission! If you want to see this effect for yourself, get a sheet of pegboard and a couple of yardsticks... simulate the scenario for yourself. The second effect of running the upper bars backwards is completely screwed up handling dynamics. With a normal 4 link, when you hit the brakes, the suspension geometry wants to lift the rear of the vehicle... therefore trying to "plant" the rear tires and assisting the braking action. When the upper bars are reversed, this dynamic is eliminated or even reversed... when you hit the brakes the suspension actually unloads the tires thereby massively reducing available braking performance. This is not our opinion... it is simply physics.
We don't know who thought up this "backwards" 4 link stuff but apparently it was originally used to provide clearance for an airspring sitting on top of the lower bars that pointed to the front. The truck magazines picked it up, the readers took it as gospel, and the rest is history.
---------------- PICS HE INCLUDED----------
ONCE AGAIN I DID NOT WRITE THIS!!
low87dawg
+1y
thanxs man but do yue know nething about fitting blazer tanks into mazdas??
cause im running parrallel 4 link
cause im running parrallel 4 link
notjo
+1y
now THAT is another very good opinion. so they're saying an ABSOLUTE NO to reverse...
What would they say about canti? (which i can't build)
so now i'm re-thinking the original triangualted 4 link... or a half and half...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
this a fricken is complicated decision.
What would they say about canti? (which i can't build)
so now i'm re-thinking the original triangualted 4 link... or a half and half...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
this a fricken is complicated decision.