99+ ford camber,,,,spindles?

Are you saying that I am "WRONG"?

i am not saying u are wrong..i agree with u....this other guy who reads a lot of suspension books though....who knows

Originally posted by couldbelower



i know u dont want to be wrong but what u are saying is all great except when you move the uppers up the lowers stay the same..now considering the tie rrod ends are connected to the bottom or the spindle...the also dont move from where they were before...i am not sure how to explain this any differently...maybe i am missing something but everything u siad tells me nothing. i recently finished a kinematics of mechanims coarse learning about all types of suspension systems and geometrical mechanisms....i have computer software to test differnt mechanisms and i simulated the control arms and my point was proven that the toe stays the same....what do u think about a smaller spindle...whats ur oponion???

The spindle sounds awesome and may make you rich but if you take the rubber boot off the the rack you will see that the pivot point is not the same as the lower control arm's pivot point that is why you get toe in when you lift the uppers I know because I did all the work on my truck and had these issues granted it can be minimized by lifting the rack but you cannot cure it easily

I wish someone could figure out how to make a lowering spindle with the control arm mounted halfway up into the spindle

Originally posted by couldbelower



as far as that truck on kustomwerks site..i dont have that much room because my steering pump is in the way..also i think that frame is also raised up in the front and the motor is lowered....its really nice work...but not exactly what i am trying to do...also good point on the no toe problems...

The spindle flip is great until you try to use a smaller rim for a spare tire or you have a flat and take out your control arm

I guess after that big long post you didnt read it... I never said the knuckle on the steering has to be in line with the lowers or in the same place. THE UPPER ARM BUSHINGS ARE FARTHER OUT ON THE FRAME THAN THE LOWERS, DRAW AN IMAGINARY LINE FROM TE UPPER BUSHING TO THE LOWER BUSHING, THE STEERING KNUCKLE MUST BE IN THAT LINE. can it be any more clear than that??????????? for the dude who is taking the courses, you better go back and take a few more courses, this is basic VERY VERY basic suspension knowledge. do I have to draw a picture???this is where opinions dont matter, this is suspension fact. when you raise the upper arm mounts they move up and the line from upper bushing to lower bushing moves due to the fact that the line from the lower bushing to upper bushing is not completely vertical. it goes out toward the fender at the top. this moves the steering knuckle outside the line from upper bushing to lower and causes a change in toe as the suspension moves. if that means your wrong then YES you are wrong. sorry guys im not trying to be a dick, or an asshole, but this is fact not opinion or "my buddy has no problems" or "we did this one and it works great" this is simple fact.

i guess i do need to see a picture...i dont understan how raising the upper control arms directly verticle changes how far from the frame the busing is....if you go directly verticle the distance from the frme will stay the same...either way i have done this before on multiple turcks and never had a toe problem....there are some compaines that produce and sell upper control arm mounts that raise the uppers on newer f150s....how can they sell a product that causes this type of steering problem

can u post some pics of ur ranger control arms...

I just explained it as clear as it can be, the upper arms are mounted farther out than the lowers, therefore a line from the upper bushing down to the lower bushing is not straight up and down. the steering rack knuckle is in that line now and when you move the uppers straight up, the bushing moves the angle of the line and then the knuckle on the steering is no longer in that line.
going directly verticle is the problem. yes the distance from the frame s changed as you have moved the arm up, the distance from one upper arm to the other stayes the same, but the angle changes and the steering doesnt.im gonna draw a pic, have my web guy put it on my site just so you can understand.
just because a company makes a part, doesnt mean it wont hurt the steering. also the geometry of the fullsize truck is different from the Ranger, the arms bushings are more directly over each other.

Originally posted by DawgsledMazda



I guess after that big long post you didnt read it... I never said the knuckle on the steering has to be in line with the lowers or in the same place. THE UPPER ARM BUSHINGS ARE FARTHER OUT ON THE FRAME THAN THE LOWERS, DRAW AN IMAGINARY LINE FROM TE UPPER BUSHING TO THE LOWER BUSHING, THE STEERING KNUCKLE MUST BE IN THAT LINE. can it be any more clear than that??????????? for the dude who is taking the courses, you better go back and take a few more courses, this is basic VERY VERY basic suspension knowledge. do I have to draw a picture???this is where opinions dont matter, this is suspension fact. when you raise the upper arm mounts they move up and the line from upper bushing to lower bushing moves due to the fact that the line from the lower bushing to upper bushing is not completely vertical. it goes out toward the fender at the top. this moves the steering knuckle outside the line from upper bushing to lower and causes a change in toe as the suspension moves. if that means your wrong then YES you are wrong. sorry guys im not trying to be a dick, or an asshole, but this is fact not opinion or "my buddy has no problems" or "we did this one and it works great" this is simple fact.

I read it and understand it well, but he is trying to eliminate as much camber as posible not just make it a little better for the sake of geometry your way sounds great but leaves him with more camber than he probably wants you can raise the uppers with the understanding your gonna get some toe but as long as you align it at the low ride height you want it rides fine and doesnt have any bumpsteer now if you ride lower or higher than that you get some weird handling

the higher the control arm mounts are the less the negative camber will be. this is true when you raise all the mounts the same amount. just raising the upper mounts is not a bad idea, you just need to keep the line the same, which means moving the mounts out some as you move them up. probably the best idea I have had yet is to Z the frame so it lays, then use Toyota spindles and make the Ranger arms work with Toyota spindles. heck you could even use Mustang II spindles and rotors. remember guys I can make any arms fit any spindes. you could even (dare I say it) use S-10 spindles.

thats what i was wondering??? What if you just get it aligned at the hieght your gonna do most of your driving at i mean that is why they make pressure gauges for correct